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Old 01-17-2015, 01:33 AM   #1
_HeC_
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Getrag F23 5spd swap Guide

Want your V6 99-05 N-body with a manual transmission? It's actually rather simple to be honest, this is just a guide and NOT a step by step how to

before you even start reading let it be known you WILL need a welder or be nice to a friend with one to make a front mount haha

PART'S LIST:
00-05 N-Body 4cyl 5speed parts(2.2 or 2.4)
-Axles
-Shifter and cables
-Clutch pedal
-Transmission mounts(rear and driver side)
-Clutch master cylinder
-Clutch slave cylinder
-4cyl 5spd subframe(saves you from making a 2nd mount for the driver side)

00-02 J-body parts(2.2 only NOT ecotec)
-Getrag F23 transmission
-Flywheel
-Clutch
-Flywheel and pressure plate bolts

Mounting transmission to your subframe
The J-body F23 has the holes for N-body 5spd mounts for the rear and driver side however the rear mount needs the holes tapped for some bolts pictured below


the N-body bolts are also slightly longer then they need to be, shortened roughly 1/4" and the first 1/2" or so of the bolts have no threads so don't worry about screwing them up while cutting shorter or I guess you can use a washer or 2

For the rear mount I recommend a poly insert meant for a 5spd J-body(95+) slides right in but the bolt for the N-body is slightly thicker so you need to drill the sleeve out slightly. I purchased mine from http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/ part #7515
J-body bushing in N-body mount and sleeve drilled out(15/32" drill bit)

hopefully you have a vice to clamp the sleeve in while boring it out and remember to go SLOW and use some sort of lubricant(wd40, liquid wrench etc)

Front mount needs to be custom made, this is what I'm running

transmission mounted to 4cyl 5spd subframe



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Old 01-17-2015, 01:34 AM   #2
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Mounting clutch pedal and shifter/cables
I gutted everything except for the dash

Extremely hard to get a picture under the dash of the clutch pedal mounted but this is a picture of all the pedals from a 4cyl/5spd N-body, EVERY N-body has that big chunk of aluminum under the dash and you can kind of see how it mounts

mounted in car

highly recommended removing your PCM/holder to install the clutch pedal, I THINK it's the only way to do it with the dash in the car still...

shifter bolts right in with no modifications and shift cables come out the same hole as your auto shift linkage


clutch master cylinder needs a 1.25" hole drilled in the firewall

those 2 bolts are there from factory once you get your fusebox out of the way, do your best to center the hole and if off slightly don't worry about it as its rather simple to get a die grinder or dremel in there to do some slight trimming also those factory bolts will be to short to bolt the master cylinder on, bring 1 to the parts store and get some 1/4" longer

interior back together for the most part, I left the automatic brake pedal and cut it to fit the 5spd brake pedal rubber
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Old 01-17-2015, 01:34 AM   #3
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WIRING
99-01 will be this to get the starter going
Quote:
Originally Posted by timka86 View Post
The automatic transmission position switch has two plugs, this is the switch that sits on top of the shifter level on the trans.(don't have a picture of it right now)

Connector C1


and C2


On connector C1, cut and splice together the purple and yellow wires (they are the two fattest wires), G & E to allow the starter to crank..
if you have a 02+ it will still be G&E HOWEVER colors won't match that diagram, G(purple) was my 12volts with key turned and E(purple/white line) goes to the starter relay, can hook those up together to get the starter to crank or hook them up to your clutch pedal to work like a normal 5spd vehicle
02+ starter diagram


Reverse light wires are F/B on C1 connector
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Old 01-17-2015, 01:35 AM   #4
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MISC
you MAY have to do more wiring if you don't have your PCM tuned already, I found this from the 6spd swap thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by timka86 View Post
EDIT: CHANGED 5-17-08, originally i made the PCM think it's in drive. after trial and error, I have come to the conclusion that putting the transmission into neutral is the best option.
and finally to make the PCM think it's in NEUTRAL, Connector C2, that's the 4 wire connector, has a WHITE, YELLOW, GRAY, and BLACK/WHITE wires.

the way it works, is that these wires, in various combinations, ground to let the PCM know in what position the automatic transmission shifter is in. That ground wire is a BLACK/WHITE wire on the other connector, C1 (6 wire connector) CAUTION: There are two BLACK/WHITE wires.

The combination for neutral is connecting the the YELLOW and WHITE wires from C2 to the BLACK/WHITE wire from C1.

the rest of the wirse just insulate and wrap them up so they're not in the way. I left the front trans connector hanging, it didn't require any mods, so far no issues.

Also works to put the car in park, cuz technically that puts the PCM thinking it's in neutral as well, only difference is that the rev limiter in park works when the car is moving or standing still.

But when in neutral the rev limiter only works only when the car is standing still.
for me I had a tune ready to go and had my PCM flashed with HPT and never did anything else

make sure you buy NEW flywheel/pressure plate bolts, do NOT even attempt to use the automatic bolts as they are a different length
pressure plate #11508687
flywheel #ZX200


obviously don't buy a clutch for a stock 2.2 J-body I went with a ebay stage 3 6puck clutch with no issues so far

flywheel can actually come from any FWD 88-02 2.2/2.8/3.1 and if my research is correct same goes for a clutch so that should open up a lot of options but I stuck with the 00-02 J-body one just to play it safe first time around 86-87 fylwheels might be the same as well but not 100% on that

when mounting the clutch pedal I found it easier to take the pushrod off the pedal and wait to install that AFTER the pedal itself is installed in the car, insert the rod through the hole in the firewall that you drilled and snap into the clutch pedal

4cyl/5spd subframe is NOT needed but makes it slightly easier, only difference between it and the V6 frame is the mount on the drivers side for the transmission which would be rather easy to make if you can't find a frame

I did my 5spd swap for next to nothing, purchased a 5spd N-body for $350 and sold engine, trans, rims, body for scrap etc and got my $350 back plus at least another $300 to put towards my clutch/flywheel/trans



writing this up rather late so hopefully I didn't miss anything but any questions ask away and if you need more pics very good chance I already have them and never posted now lets see more V6 5speed swaps happening!!!
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Old 01-17-2015, 10:35 AM   #5
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Awesome write up man!
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Old 01-17-2015, 08:30 PM   #6
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damn you! i swore i wasnt going to do anything else to my bland am
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Old 01-17-2015, 11:08 PM   #7
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Thanks for the write up.
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Old 01-18-2015, 10:56 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronGTR View Post
Awesome write up man!
thanks, took a lot longer then I thought to put together haha
Quote:
Originally Posted by young gun View Post
Thanks for the write up.
np, been debating on a swap?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAC the KNIFE View Post
damn you! i swore i wasnt going to do anything else to my bland am
haha sorry man but you know you want to! Looks like that F23 was made for our cars

just look at all that space it frees up and the weight savings!


I've found a couple 5spd N-bodys cheap in my area, been debating on stripping another one to build another GAGT to flip but just not sure if it would be worth my time
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Old 01-18-2015, 12:17 PM   #9
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Hey Mike... how much do you think it'd cost for the parts and mounts? You've got me seriously thinking about this now.... if you were to fab everything up for me to be ready to drop it in what would it cost me?
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Old 01-19-2015, 06:31 PM   #10
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hard to say Tim, A friend of mine made the front mount for a fellow forum member on here so I'd have to attempt to make a similar one that can take the abuse... the mount I'm running is version 2 as his first 1 ripped apart rather quickly from what I remember
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Old 01-19-2015, 07:08 PM   #11
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Fair enough man! Just thought I'd ask
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Old 01-19-2015, 08:20 PM   #12
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Love the write up. I'd love to do this to mine, I just can't justify it with other projects on the horizon (worst part is, i know where I can probably get the trans for next to nothing).

I'm curious, do you have information on what tuning changes needed done to the PCM?
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Old 01-26-2015, 04:19 PM   #13
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thats the great thing about this swap is the transmissions are dirt cheap! any F23 will work as long as you have the right bellhousing from the 2.2 J-body... I believe people go after the cobalt F23s for better gearing

I really don't have much info on the tuning, I bought a already HP tuned PCM from a 99GA with a LX9/5spd swap... tossed it in my car and had a buddy copy the tune to his laptop, tossed my 03 PCM back in and flashed the tune to it, I do have 2 codes that still need to be removed but car runs/drives great so far(1500kms on it)
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Old 01-26-2015, 07:04 PM   #14
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That actually looks kinda fun - at first I never really cared about a manual but now I'm a little more interested!
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Old 02-16-2015, 09:40 AM   #15
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Awesome write up. My GA hasn't seen much road time lately and I haven't touch anything on it in years. Might be time to revive this car with a new project!
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Old 02-26-2015, 03:34 PM   #16
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do it up! I did a LX9 swap at the same time as my 5spd but what a difference, feels like a entire new car
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Old 02-26-2015, 05:19 PM   #17
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also it was brought to my attention that the flywheel bolts I posted in my original write up might not be the best option to go with, I haven't seen any posts about failures but ATP apparently switched to a overseas supplier now and quality control might not be as good as there older US supplier....
http://realfierotech.com/phpBB/viewt...hp?f=3&t=17718

no issues for me but I only have 1500kms on my swap and not sure if I got US or oversea bolts, if you didn't read the thread ATP does still have some stock of US made bolts floating around which SHOULD be better from my understanding... I plan to rip my drivetrain out shortly, if I have the US bolts I'm keeping them if not trip to the dealership or hardware store for some 10.9 bolts
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Old 04-14-2015, 04:27 PM   #18
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Interesting. I'm finishing one of these too.
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Old 04-14-2015, 05:14 PM   #19
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Why not ARP flywheel bolts?
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Old 04-14-2015, 07:29 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepyalero View Post
Why not ARP flywheel bolts?
Can you read the whole thing????

Quote:
Originally Posted by _HeC_ View Post
also it was brought to my attention that the flywheel bolts I posted in my original write up might not be the best option to go with, I haven't seen any posts about failures but ATP apparently switched to a overseas supplier now and quality control might not be as good as there older US supplier....
http://realfierotech.com/phpBB/viewt...hp?f=3&t=17718

no issues for me but I only have 1500kms on my swap and not sure if I got US or oversea bolts, if you didn't read the thread ATP does still have some stock of US made bolts floating around which SHOULD be better from my understanding... I plan to rip my drivetrain out shortly, if I have the US bolts I'm keeping them if not trip to the dealership or hardware store for some 10.9 bolts
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