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Old 03-06-2011, 07:06 PM   #81
AleroB888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kstorm43 View Post
I know no one said that, I'm just kinda trying to prove a point here. I have better things to do than make up fake 14 second ET's, Lol.
My only theory could be the track/air. I think it's pretty close to sea level, and there was some damn cold air that night. I know they prepped the track well too, it was hooking up nice even on the Khumo all seasons that are on it now. My quickest run before that night was a 15.2x at Mason Dixon last year some time, but I guess you won't believe that either. =/
Other things equal, changing tracks might get you a tenth or a little more, and cold air certainly helps. But as mentioned, there are cases where the track timing can be incorrect for one run, as if the clock trips on the rear wheels instead the fronts. Then it may or may not have a valid trap time, 60 ft time, etc. So, backup runs within a tenth of your best time would usually be called for, and a clear video, showing the car# if possible.
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= Best track time: 12.951 @ 104.48, 1.839 60 ft. (Beech Bend Raceway Park, 11-23-13), 50 Deg. F
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Old 03-06-2011, 07:11 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AleroB888 View Post
Other things equal, changing tracks might get you a tenth or a little more, and cold air certainly helps. But as mentioned, there are cases where the track timing can be incorrect for one run, as if the clock trips on the rear wheels instead the fronts. Then it may or may not have a valid trap time, 60 ft time, etc. So, backup runs within a tenth of your best time would usually be called for, and a clear video, showing the car# if possible.
Yeah, I gotcha. Well this post (one I quoted below here) has a pic of the car w/ the number, a screenshot from one of my videos showing the car in the staging lanes with the number on the window, and the 14.89 slip with three 14.9x's to back it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kstorm43 View Post
I have a few in-car video runs, I don't think any were 14 second runs but I'm pretty sure I have some low 15's. I don't have a pic of the car AT the track, but it's in the garage with the number still on it I think.

Edit: Yup, quickest run I have on video is a 15.19. Only other proof I can offer is this screenshot from one of the videos: http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/6550/59235873.jpg (camera was in the headrest sideways, but it's a backwards number 2 if you tilt your head, .) And I guess I can get pics of the other 14 sec runs, and snap a picture of the engine tomorrow and all that if that's what it takes.

Another edit: Pics of all the 14 second slips (warning - f'ing huge) http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/5932/0000066y.jpg http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/8967/0000067.jpg

Edit number 500: Pics of the car/engine (also f'ing huge) http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/7918/0000068w.jpg http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/6398/0000069e.jpg
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Old 03-06-2011, 07:31 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kstorm43 View Post
Yeah, I gotcha. Well this post (one I quoted below here) has a pic of the car w/ the number, a screenshot from one of my videos showing the car in the staging lanes with the number on the window, and the 14.89 slip with three 14.9x's to back it up.
The stuff looks authentic to me..... as an aside, there is a track in KY where people claim the times are 1-2 tenths faster.... and it's an 1/8 mile track, too (US 60 Dragway, I think it's named ). Being new to the site, you're going to be under more scrutiny, though.
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= Best track time: 12.951 @ 104.48, 1.839 60 ft. (Beech Bend Raceway Park, 11-23-13), 50 Deg. F
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpVYZPbpPzk
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:02 PM   #84
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Yeah, altitude and air temp are only going to get you so much. A couple tenths maybe... not a whole second.
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:40 PM   #85
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Well, here's the last thing I can do to try and prove it I guess. Unless I make it back down there and get some more runs in soon.
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Old 03-07-2011, 04:51 AM   #86
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i love how he sounds like a guy not trying to sound nervous while trying to explain the maryjane smell to a cop.

FYI, when they said "hidden" nitrous bottles, nobody "hides" them in the trunk.
i've seen full race builds where they were actually inside the gas tank! now that's hidden
unsafe and illegal too, but sneaky
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Old 03-07-2011, 07:46 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by GTfanatic View Post
i love how he sounds like a guy not trying to sound nervous while trying to explain the maryjane smell to a cop.

FYI, when they said "hidden" nitrous bottles, nobody "hides" them in the trunk.
i've seen full race builds where they were actually inside the gas tank! now that's hidden
unsafe and illegal too, but sneaky
My bad, I've got anxiety problems, I always kinda stutter like that.. >_>

In the gas tank? Seriously? Wow.
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Old 03-07-2011, 01:14 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kstorm43 View Post
Well, here's the last thing I can do to try and prove it I guess. Unless I make it back down there and get some more runs in soon.
Don't worry, the season has only started, there's plenty of time for you to get more evidence of what appears to be phenomenal performance. Just be patient. Now we have also had recent reports of steroid use (bad scene, man). So you will also have to submit a urine sample to SikMindz. PM Sik for more details.
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Magnuson MP90 / TOG's / 3 in. Magnaflow exhaust / MSD ignition / LS1 MAF / Racetronix pump / HP Tuners / TCE 68mm TB / 36 lb Inj
= Best track time: 12.951 @ 104.48, 1.839 60 ft. (Beech Bend Raceway Park, 11-23-13), 50 Deg. F
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpVYZPbpPzk
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Old 03-07-2011, 04:00 PM   #89
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Honestly, my bet is that the track he ran at has an F*ed up timing system. They were probably handing out false time slips to everyone that night. Next time you're there ask them what timing system they use and how long it's been since it has been calibrated.

I have no doubt if you went to another well known track you would not run that fast, because it is mathematically impossible to run that time with anywhere close to stock HP levels, and it is scientifically impossible for you to pick up 50 HP at the wheels over all other stock grand ams.

In 10 years I have never seen a stock grand am run anywhere near that time. If you could run that at say Norwalk raceway in Ohio, I would fly up there myself to see it, pay to put the car on a scale (with you in it), and pay to put it on the dyno and see what power it was putting down, and I'd give you $100 if you made over 190whp.

That's how confident I am that you DIDN'T run that time. Because the laws of physics don't cease to exist in PA.
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Old 03-07-2011, 06:09 PM   #90
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i didnt even run that with a tb, cat back, CAI and tune. my pb is a 15.04 on street tires on a cool october day in IL. did it twice. i didnt expect anything faster after that
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Old 03-07-2011, 07:24 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by AleroB888 View Post
Don't worry, the season has only started, there's plenty of time for you to get more evidence of what appears to be phenomenal performance. Just be patient. Now we have also had recent reports of steroid use (bad scene, man). So you will also have to submit a urine sample to SikMindz. PM Sik for more details.
Okay, I'll get on that ASAP. Thanks for the tip!




Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronGTR View Post
Honestly, my bet is that the track he ran at has an F*ed up timing system. They were probably handing out false time slips to everyone that night. Next time you're there ask them what timing system they use and how long it's been since it has been calibrated.

I have no doubt if you went to another well known track you would not run that fast, because it is mathematically impossible to run that time with anywhere close to stock HP levels, and it is scientifically impossible for you to pick up 50 HP at the wheels over all other stock grand ams.

In 10 years I have never seen a stock grand am run anywhere near that time. If you could run that at say Norwalk raceway in Ohio, I would fly up there myself to see it, pay to put the car on a scale (with you in it), and pay to put it on the dyno and see what power it was putting down, and I'd give you $100 if you made over 190whp.

That's how confident I am that you DIDN'T run that time. Because the laws of physics don't cease to exist in PA.
Well, I obviously have nothing to prove whether the timing system is or isn't screwed, just trying to prove that my car is, for the most part, stock.
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Old 03-08-2011, 09:51 AM   #92
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I was actually gonna take my car to cecil, could probably hit 12s on stock motor , they say cecil is a faster track than most, hear atco is pretty good too
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Old 03-08-2011, 09:00 PM   #93
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Can we all just admit that he is possibly a better driver than us?

You can give anyone a "six second" car, and it won't run anything near six seconds.

You can give anyone a stock...or modified Grand Am, and it might not run anywhere near a normal ET for a Grand Am.

Give a car to someone who drags a lot (from the posts, it sounds like kstorm does) and they can make the car do well.
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Old 03-08-2011, 09:15 PM   #94
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Quote:
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Can we all just admit that he is possibly a better driver than us?

You can give anyone a "six second" car, and it won't run anything near six seconds.

You can give anyone a stock...or modified Grand Am, and it might not run anywhere near a normal ET for a Grand Am.

Give a car to someone who drags a lot (from the posts, it sounds like kstorm does) and they can make the car do well.

No, we can't....

As I stated, it is scientifically IMPOSSIBLE for a car with less than 145whp to accelerate to 90mph in the 1/4 mile in 14.9 seconds. Physics ya know... the whole "power=mass x acceleration" deal... they still apply in PA. You can't make a 3100+ lb car go that fast without 190+ whp and you can't get that out of a stock GA.

It doesn't matter how good a driver he is. You could put John Force in that car... and he's not going to run a 14.9 second quarter mile. Bottom line is, something at that track is wrong.
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Old 03-08-2011, 09:27 PM   #95
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If your going by all of those "E/T" calculators to get the word impossible...your dumb.

There are tons of bone stock GA's hitting very low 15's at lots of different tracks.

Maybe the wind was at his back? Who knows. ::

I think your just pissy because your boosted and only a second faster.
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Old 03-08-2011, 10:01 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOYS View Post
If your going by all of those "E/T" calculators to get the word impossible...your dumb.

There are tons of bone stock GA's hitting very low 15's at lots of different tracks.

Maybe the wind was at his back? Who knows. ::

I think your just pissy because your boosted and only a second faster.
LMAO!

I beleave the times are real, look at every one at the track in their snow suits! and the car hooked thanks to some very good track prep! I don't think the times will get any better with out mods though.

look at #7 N/A time from Slowbird 14.86@90mph not much difference. Slowbird ran 15.3 with his 4 door GAGT bone stock first time to the track with it. more seat time I think he could have got a 14.9-15.1 out of it.

my 92 lumina with a bone stock 190,000 mi 3400 in it running on a un-tuned stock 3.1L pcm ran a 15.6@92MPH in November. 2.5" down pipe to the cat, 2" stock cat back exhaust to a flowmaster muffler and a cone filter on the end of a 3"x3" pipe! have not done anything to the engine other than cleaning up the outtlet on the rear manifold a little bit. The lumina has as much weight if not more and a 2.84 FDR 3spd Auto trans.

I am sure that Kstorm43 would run a 14.9-15.0 at another track at this time of year!
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Old 03-09-2011, 09:54 AM   #97
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Ya, I call BS too. I'll believe the track's timing was f'ed up before I believe he defied the laws of physics.
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Old 03-09-2011, 12:47 PM   #98
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All the 'calling BS' makes me laugh.

I believe him, and there are several other credible people that achieved low 15's stock, particularly at east coast (near sea level) during favorable conditions. I've seen people beat their personal bests by half a second at Atco or Cecil in cold pre-spring/late-fall weather. Seth (Iceman) was another example... ran a 15.3 during Pontiac Day (Atco) 2001, bone stock...

(Excuse the "10 years ago" video resolution) Gave my camcorder to other members of this site (badassgrandam99 is who you hear)... I witnessed it from the staging lanes just behind him.

"ihaveadopeGT" Dan ran a 15.4 @ Cecil with 95 GT, 3100, only intake/exhaust. Another local with the same setup tied it. I ran consistent high 15's there with a stock 150HP 4-banger. Yes, I realize 4th gen is lighter, but the track/weather conditions were always favorable to making good times there.

Everything in the video seems credible to me too... right down the Fri night crowd of teens that preferred to spectate from the fence instead of the stands. I've met Kris at various events, doesn't strike me as someone who has anything to gain BS'ing, especially when he ha plenty of track practice and has already posted with several near times with proof.

Or people who sunk thousands into their 3400 to get equal or slower results be too butthurt?
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Old 03-09-2011, 01:06 PM   #99
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Quote:
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Can we all just admit that he is possibly a better driver than us?
Lol No. It's an automatic. Being a better driver will not make that much of a difference except for the launch.

I believe the time though. Joe from Flint (Gold99HO) ran high 14's at Milan (described as slow after they repaved it) consistently with a K&N filter in the stock ram air and an SLP cat-back which is not very far from stock. His car was a freak. It shows his slip when he ran 14.9 was in late October which is still relatively warm compared to now. When he was with me for my best run I'm pretty sure he ran a 14.8 that day. It being March and the air being extremely cold could put a factory freak into the 14's easily if the tires are right and it hooks perfectly.

For the record Aaron ... I put down ~205-210 to the wheels. I don't think an extra 15whp will net 0.9 seconds. Your estimation is high for what is needed to break into the 14's.
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Old 03-09-2011, 04:03 PM   #100
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All you people need to wake the F up. It doesn't matter how cold the air is or how well the track is prepped. Cold air will gain you a few tenths... not over a full second. The only way to accelerate a given mass faster is with more power. I've worked the numbers in several different calculators and get the same results every time. I've also found them to be fairly accurate for most cars I've seen too. Sometimes they are a few tenths off based on the difference of the cars drive train and launch characteristics, but in general they are pretty close.

Edit: Here's some more info for the physics challenged. Given the same absolute air pressure and relative humidity, you gain about 1.5% relative HP for every 10 degree drop in air temp. As a VERY rough estimate that equals about 2.6hp on a 175hp grand am. Now, that 175hp is based on the SAE standards for testing, and any difference on outside air pressure and humidity will either help or hurt the base power you are starting at, as well as the calculated change, so that 2.6hp gain is not concrete. But using that as a reference, with drivetrain loss that 2.6 is about 2.1 at the wheels, and he'd need 195hp to run a 14.9, so to gain 50whp from colder air temps it would have to be...... wait for it.....

minus 161 degrees Fahrenheit! Don't think VHT works at that temp.
Some other interesting numbers... you gain approximately 1 tenth for every 10hp increase. You gain approximately 1hp worth of acceleration for every 10lbs decrease in car weight.

Here's the bottom line for those who need it spelled out.

1) This is MY thread and MY list. I make the rules... not you.

2) The only times going up on the list are those that are accurate, believable, and with sufficient proof.

3) If you don't like it, you can take a hike. If I have to I'll just lock this thread and anyone who wants to be added later can PM with their details. 'Nuff said.


edit #2: all you "low 15 sec people"... I still have yet to see a true stock grand am run better than a 15.5. 15.3 is still kinda mid 15's. I consider 15.1 low 15's. Regardless, there is still a WORLD of difference between 15.3 and 14.9. Mainly 40hp worth.
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Last edited by AaronGTR; 03-09-2011 at 04:23 PM.
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