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Old 06-28-2011, 09:28 PM   #121
sugar ray
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Well....I would have assumed that you would have jacked the car up at some point to drain the oil and the Dex Cool antifreeze before you started "ARNOLD"?? ha! ha! When I did mine I just left it jacked up and on stands as I found it easier on the back after hours of bending.

Anyways.....as for the push rod placement. I sense your a little unsure?? If you marked exact location of each rod then why bother getting new ones?? I did the exact same thing you did. Marked their location as they came out. So if you know this information then no worries!! Just put them back in their proper homes, seat them, and tighten. The ones at the back can be the trickiest cause there isn't much room for fingers!! There is no known map or lay out as far as I know. Don't fear this step you marked correct location

As for cranking the motor by hand. That was only a "SUGGESTION" I decided to do that while it was all apart to "confirm" the rods were seated correctly and operating as they should. Inspecting them while hand cranking will confirm this. It is quite common for one of the rods to not be quite seated properly and just slide down into its hole on motor start up. If that happens its NO BIG DEAL. Just means your car runs on 5 cylinders, your SES light comes on, and your forced to pop off the valve cover and remove some accessories around it so you can get at the fallen rod.

One last thing you may want to get while at the auto supply store. Depending on what gasket kit you purchased?? Haynes manual suggest replacing the head bolts when doing a gasket. Myself and others never did!! Just grab some good loc-tight on the head bolt threads if re-using them. My 3.4 has been running strong well over a year since doing it. You may have purchased the deluxe kit which comes with new bolts?? I would suggest "fel-pro's problem solving kit" as apposed to any re manufactured GM gasket. It was GM's piss poorly designed gasket that got you into this mess to begin with
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Old 06-28-2011, 09:46 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sugar ray View Post
Well....I would have assumed that you would have jacked the car up at some point to drain the oil and the Dex Cool antifreeze before you started "ARNOLD"?? ha! ha! When I did mine I just left it jacked up and on stands as I found it easier on the back after hours of bending.

Anyways.....as for the push rod placement. I sense your a little unsure?? If you marked exact location of each rod then why bother getting new ones?? I did the exact same thing you did. Marked their location as they came out. So if you know this information then no worries!! Just put them back in their proper homes, seat them, and tighten. The ones at the back can be the trickiest cause there isn't much room for fingers!! There is no known map or lay out as far as I know. Don't fear this step you marked correct location

As for cranking the motor by hand. That was only a "SUGGESTION" I decided to do that while it was all apart to "confirm" the rods were seated correctly and operating as they should. Inspecting them while hand cranking will confirm this. It is quite common for one of the rods to not be quite seated properly and just slide down into its hole on motor start up. If that happens its NO BIG DEAL. Just means your car runs on 5 cylinders, your SES light comes on, and your forced to pop off the valve cover and remove some accessories around it so you can get at the fallen rod.

One last thing you may want to get while at the auto supply store. Depending on what gasket kit you purchased?? Haynes manual suggest replacing the head bolts when doing a gasket. Myself and others never did!! Just grab some good loc-tight on the head bolt threads if re-using them. My 3.4 has been running strong well over a year since doing it. You may have purchased the deluxe kit which comes with new bolts?? I would suggest "fel-pro's problem solving kit" as apposed to any re manufactured GM gasket. It was GM's piss poorly designed gasket that got you into this mess to begin with
x2 on rotating the engine by hand after putting the pushrods back in.

The pushrods are different lengths, putting a long pushrod (an exhaust pushrod) where are short pushrod (an intake pushrod) goes will make that valve to be open no matter what, therefor hitting the top of the piston when it comes to TDC. Bent valves = bad.

As far as GM Gaskets go, I just pulled my '03 3400 LA1 with 151k some miles on it with GM GASKETS. It was fine. GM revised the gaskets in '03. They work just fine.
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:22 AM   #123
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Making my day

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugar ray View Post
Well....I would have assumed that you would have jacked the car up at some point to drain the oil and the Dex Cool antifreeze before you started "ARNOLD"?? ha! ha! When I did mine I just left it jacked up and on stands as I found it easier on the back after hours of bending.
Nah. I just crawled under the beast and drained the oil like a regular oil change. I hate using these girly-man jacks that they make us use for cars these days.
Suggestions are that I replace the oil pan gasket, so I may wind up "jacked" anyway.

I want to thank you profusely for all the time you are taking with this. You assumption that I would have jacked up the car at the beginning indicates that you have me confused with someone who actually might know what he is doing.

Your suggestions about the pushrods and especially the tyip about the gasket set and bolts.

I have purchased neither one yet but was intending to do so tomorrow.
I am gong to take your advice and re-shop that gasket set (minus bolts) and put some of that lock grip on the list.

You have been most helpful to me and I hope I can pass the favor on in some way to someone else.
Best regards
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Old 06-30-2011, 02:58 AM   #124
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Anytime my friend!! I was in the SAME boat as you last year. As a hobbiest, my wife can not figure out how I can display such patience when wrenching in the garage yet when we go shopping, my patience wants to leave 30 seconds after entering the store. Funny how that works??

Anyways........one last tip. If your not in a major rush to finish the job? I have always found that shopping for what I need online regarding car parts can save you a bundle of money when compared to what your local auto parts store may be marking up on you. So when you hit your parts store, see if they can match online prices. Here is what you will need including part number:

http://www.autopartstomorrow.com/par...e-manifold-set

You may notice how Felpro's "metal" design is far superior to GM's factory rubber.

and lastly.....you will need 2 of these

http://www.autopartstomorrow.com/parts/9710-head-gasket

take care
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Old 06-30-2011, 07:22 AM   #125
stevenlemon
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You can rest assured you are in a HUGE fraternity regarding that shopping with the wife thing! men are hard wired for "shopping". We know what we want before we get there, it takes just a few minutes to find it, and LET'S GO! Women, however, are "touchy-feely". They need to see and touch every option available to them, then agonize over which one.
But I digress.

Thanks again for all your help! I have a whole month to finish. One day to shop, a week to wait on delivery, and three weeks to put it together.
I am gonng to take your advice on your last two links and start shopping immediately.
I WAS going to replace the serpentine belt and water pump while I was in there, but then I read about timing chains, so that option is OUT.
Best regards
Steven Lemon
Augusta, GA
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Old 07-07-2011, 05:43 AM   #126
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Well, thanks to some outstanding help from you guys, I am almost at the point of finishing this job! My swivel head ratchet arrived yesterday and I think I can get that tailpip loose from the exhaust manifold without getting underneath. I decided, however, to change out the water pump while I was at this point so....

I have read where replacing hte pump involved the timing chain and something aobut "16 small bolts".

Well, I removed and replaced the pump yesterday and I still have no idea what or where a timing chain is and the only group of 16 bolts I saw were the head bolts.

Speaking of which, I initially decided to take some advice I found here and reuse the head bolts, but when I went to buy the lock tite for them, the guy at the counter put the fear of the devil in me. He said I shouldn't re-use the bolts because it could cause serious engine problems later.

I came home and decided to order a new set of bolts, but I got to thinking, I have had better advice here than anywhere else, so dammit, I'm gonna stick with it anyway. So much for the fear of the devil.

Problem is, I took the old bolts and wrapped them up and threw thm in the trash BEFORE I got that religion, so although I can retrieve them (Hey. I've stuck my head in smellier places), ther won't be any way to determine what o rder they were.

My question is, will it matter or do I now have to buy new bolts anyway?
And what did I do to replace my water pump that casued me to miss those other steps?
Thanks guys.
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Old 07-07-2011, 12:23 PM   #127
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Head bolts or Lower Intake Manifold bolts?

Head Bolts : NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER REUSE

LIM Bolts: Some people here reuse them and have success with them... whenever I pull the LIM I always put new bolts in. It is GM recommended and whats like 20 bucks for piece of mind?
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Old 07-07-2011, 04:30 PM   #128
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I'm convince. I guess I caould save the old bolts for when I finish making my new cannon.
I have one more question right now, or maybe it is a comment. I am not smart enough to know which, but throughout all of th eindstructions I read here and elsewhere, very little if anything is mentioned about applying gasket sealer when replacing gaskets except for when old gaskets are removed.

Are the instructors just assuming that clowns like me KNOW to use it or is it a requirement.

I put my water pump on yesterday, following the instrucitons religiously. Only after I finished did I notice the tube of sealant lying in the toolbox.
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Old 07-07-2011, 07:39 PM   #129
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I'm convince. I guess I caould save the old bolts for when I finish making my new cannon.
I have one more question right now, or maybe it is a comment. I am not smart enough to know which, but throughout all of th eindstructions I read here and elsewhere, very little if anything is mentioned about applying gasket sealer when replacing gaskets except for when old gaskets are removed.

Are the instructors just assuming that clowns like me KNOW to use it or is it a requirement.

I put my water pump on yesterday, following the instrucitons religiously. Only after I finished did I notice the tube of sealant lying in the toolbox.
There is a gasket between the water pump and timing cover. Some people use RTV but that is the wrong way to do it...
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Old 07-08-2011, 06:15 AM   #130
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Normal Screw up

Obviously I screwed up my question again. I was asking about whether or not to use the sealer WITH the gasket, not instead of.

But I read in your answer that it might be OK to use just the gasket.

I hope that's right, because as soon as I finish breakfast I',m going out and try to finish this job before it gets hot.
Thanks
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Old 07-08-2011, 06:49 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by stevenlemon View Post
Obviously I screwed up my question again. I was asking about whether or not to use the sealer WITH the gasket, not instead of.

But I read in your answer that it might be OK to use just the gasket.

I hope that's right, because as soon as I finish breakfast I',m going out and try to finish this job before it gets hot.
Thanks
For the water pump you use just the gasket.
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Old 07-08-2011, 07:07 AM   #132
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But use the RTV AND gaskets on all the others?
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Old 07-08-2011, 07:36 AM   #133
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But use the RTV AND gaskets on all the others?
For the lower intake manifold job, you will use RTV in the flat "valley" area of the engine.

Looking at the engine sideways:

\ | /
\ | /
\ V /
\________/

You will put RTV on the flat surface the arrow points at. A little bit larger bead in the corners where the heads meet the block.

Also, you will use RTV in the area between the valve cover side of the lower intake manifold and heads.
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Old 07-17-2011, 02:10 PM   #134
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Stupid Question

I was within 15 minutes of completing this mission when I noticed I had missed replacing something, so I had to remove the upper intake manifold. Then I stupidly reinstalled the upper gaskets, both of which slipped on one end and actually caused me to overtighten the end bolts, which resulted in a CRACK in one end of the upper manifold and a CRACK in the opposite end of the LOWER manifold, so guess what...I have to go all the way back down to where I just installed the gaskets onto the heads. My question is (other than Why me, Lord???) is, can I keep the upper gaskets or do I have to replace them along with the new lower gaskets? The uppers are basically metal with rubber components, and I don't want to make a similar mistake.

I'm ordering an upper and lower gasket tomorrow (anybody got any for sale???), so I'd like to know if I need all new gaskets or can I just leave the ones on the heads.
Thanks
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Old 08-19-2011, 01:44 PM   #135
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OK, I have a couple of questions. I have just finished this process (I couldn't have done it without this walkthrough) but the car didn't start. It acted like it was not getting any fire. I talked to a mechanic and he said I should have had the heads ground before reinstalling them. OK, so I backtrack to do that all over again and when I get to removing the LIM I see that step (16) says this step is optional unless I want to remove the injectors, etc. Question is how can I remove the heads without removing the LIM and how can I remove the LIM with the fuel ilines (in and out) to the LIM?

Also, the mechanic says the bolts on the UIM should have been torqued to 18 INCH pounds instead of foot pounds, which would explain why I had to replace the UIM TWICE using 18 foot pounds (two corners snapped right off. I'm looking at buying a third one soon). As I'm thinking, 18 inch pounds is only 1.5 foot pounds, which is barely past finger tight. Could that be true? If the mechanic is wrong about the torque measurement, could he also be wrong about the head shaving?
Thanks
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Old 08-23-2011, 10:34 AM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenlemon View Post
Also, the mechanic says the bolts on the UIM should have been torqued to 18 INCH pounds instead of foot pounds, which would explain why I had to replace the UIM TWICE using 18 foot pounds (two corners snapped right off. I'm looking at buying a third one soon). As I'm thinking, 18 inch pounds is only 1.5 foot pounds, which is barely past finger tight. Could that be true? If the mechanic is wrong about the torque measurement, could he also be wrong about the head shaving?
Thanks
I would also like to know the answer to this. As when I installed my last UIM one corner cracked and had to be epoxied together to bolt it.
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Old 08-23-2011, 04:28 PM   #137
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EPOXIED!!!
Whatchu talkin 'bout, Willis???
I hope I can still find that piece that broke off. What kind of epoxy did you use and did it work?
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Old 08-27-2011, 09:01 AM   #138
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The Haynes manual I used specifies 18 ft-lbs, not in-lbs. I went through this about 25,000 miles ago and everything is working fine. I actually replaced the head gasket at the same time, since I was already that far into the engine. So even though I had the heads removed, there was still no reason to deck them (shave off material).

The mechanic you are talking to is either retarded or trying to get money from you. Decking your heads is not required when changing your LIM gasket. It is only needed when you have warped them (probably by overheating, and you would likely also need to bore & hone the cylinders in the block), or you are trying to raise your engine's compression ratio.

The reason you snapped the corners is you probably didn't follow the correct tightening sequence. If you don't know the specified tightening sequence you can use this generic sequence for any gasketed joint (UIM, LIM, heads, etc): Start with the middle bolt, and work outward in a circular direction. I've attached pictures of the torque specs and tightening pattern from the Haynes manual that you can look at.

In regards to your engine not firing, you are definitely not on the right track. Go back to the basics. Find out if you are getting spark, then check if you are getting fuel pressure.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg UIM Torque Sequence.jpg (41.2 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg Torque Specs.jpg (87.4 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg UIM Torque Specs.jpg (69.9 KB, 19 views)

Last edited by mekaneck; 08-27-2011 at 09:08 AM.
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Old 08-27-2011, 09:23 AM   #139
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UPDATE: Well, after I finished the first time, the car wouldn't start, so I removed the head and THE CYLINDERS HAD MORE ANTI FREEZE THAN THE FIRST TIME. The head gaskets (both) looked as if they had not even been installed. Honesty compels me to report that I had left one of the rear corner head bolts barely above finger tight, so I am presuming that is the reason for the leakage.

My mechanic thinks the reason for the initial problem was that the gaskets failed, but I disagree that the heads are warped. I only ran the car about a quarter mile while it was hot. I think the initial overheating ruined the gaskets and that caused flooding of the engine with antifreeze.

I have the heads off now and am debating taking them and getting them resurfaced or just redo the gasket installation. I am wondering if the gasket can be reused. They don't look at all used, and even if I use new ones, iis it ok if I use some sort of sealer with them instead of dry like last time?

I missed the response to my last question: The mechanic says the six upper manifold bolts should be 160INCH pounds instead of foot pounds. I broke TWO manifolds applying 160 footpounds, but 160inch pounds is barely hand tight. Anybody got an actual number I can use?

Also, one of the valves seems to be about an eighth of an inch (twice as much clearance as any of the others) from being completely seated.
Is that a problem and should I replace that valve myself?
Thanks
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Old 08-27-2011, 09:35 AM   #140
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I goofed when I said 160 foot pounds a minute ago. The mechanic knows I am doing this myself. He has agree to have the heads resurfaced and reinstall the system for me. Of course I'm not saying he is NOT insane, however.

I pretty much followed the procedure for installing the manifold bolts. I think I just didn't have the gaskets aligned correctly. Those things are made of cardboard anyway and they cut and tear so easily. I think the manufacturers are trying to get money out of me., but I digress.

I hope I don't have to resurface the cylinders or the block. I mean, the car is not worth the $900 estimated for the head job alone. I'll put it beside the road for the trash truck if I have to go much higher than that, especially doing most of the work myself.
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