CAMs

[blckgagt]

i never realized it until now. Comp Cams is located in Memphis Tn. Thats only like an hour from where i live, might have to check it out sometime and see what they can do for me.

[phantom505]

Well I'm having a cam sent to Comp to see what they can do for a regrind. I can't say the guy I called yesterday was terribly helpful. If you like I might be able to pitch in on your project so we can get this ball rolling a little bit faster.

Let me know what you think.

[FastSteve]

So Crower basically ignores anyone with something along the lines of an American Sport compact vehicle or something similar. They ignore Grand Am owners. Well keep that in mind people and tell them to stick up their a$$ if they come up with anything.

I am sick and tired of these cam companies lieing out the a$$ to us about cost. First, how much would a junk yard motor with computer cost them to buy and get running? Maybe a grand? Second, a computer figures all the damn specs for them. Where do you think that goes? Into the memory maybe? So anything they do they retain. Second then a machine cuts the cam for them. Anything that requires extreme effort isnt done by a person. It really is getting to be b*llsh*t with these cam companies claims.

I know I am generalizing the whole process to some point. But the real point here is cam companies trying to RAPE potential customers! I am sick of companies trying to take advantage of Grand Am owners and their interest in having after market parts available to them just like the damn imports.

Bottom line. Let me know when a real cam company steps up to the plate and make a real and REASONABLE option available to us! Flame away on me people if you must, but thats my feelings on this.

[FastSteve]

Oh by the way before someone asking how I came up with that info. I watched a special on tv about some big cam company and how that make cams. Didnt look that hard for them if they wanted to make one to get it done.

[blckgagt]

I don't have money to get anything done right now. I'm about to purchase an *** bodykit and hood in 2 weeks. So, im not gonna have any money for over a month. But im definitely interested in getting this thing moving, but right now money is really tight so i can't really help.

[GTManiac]

Originally posted by FastSteve
So Crower basically ignores anyone with something along the lines of an American Sport compact vehicle or something similar. They ignore Grand Am owners. Well keep that in mind people and tell them to stick up their a$$ if they come up with anything.

I am sick and tired of these cam companies lieing out the a$$ to us about cost. First, how much would a junk yard motor with computer cost them to buy and get running? Maybe a grand? Second, a computer figures all the damn specs for them. Where do you think that goes? Into the memory maybe? So anything they do they retain. Second then a machine cuts the cam for them. Anything that requires extreme effort isnt done by a person. It really is getting to be b*llsh*t with these cam companies claims.

I know I am generalizing the whole process to some point. But the real point here is cam companies trying to RAPE potential customers! I am sick of companies trying to take advantage of Grand Am owners and their interest in having after market parts available to them just like the damn imports.

Bottom line. Let me know when a real cam company steps up to the plate and make a real and REASONABLE option available to us! Flame away on me people if you must, but thats my feelings on this.

you're kidding right?

it's not as simple as buying a motor and getting a computer hooked up to it and getting it to run... *I'm seriously at a loss for words here with that explanation... like I'm trying to figure out how to understand how you came to that conclusion...*

They need a working CAR, there's ALOT more than just changing values. It takes a TON of time for all of this work. Top that off with that fact that a cam for our car would be a dead object (I don't know too many people willing to spend the money ($500 or less for a decent one, expect to pay $800 for a good one, once they're made) and I sure as hell know there's MAYBE 1 in 500 people willing to take their engine out to put a cam in (unlike an OHC cam you have to remove/lift the engine to slide the cam out, talking serious man hours and money to do that and do it right.) So why should THEY go out of their way to LOSE money to make us a cam. Everyone who has responded to this thread says "oh yeah, I'm interested" or "yeah put me down for one of those" and these people have NO intention WHATSOEVER of buying it unless it is less than $300 to buy AND install. I also forgot to mention tuning (you can NOT just drop a cam in and expect a honkey dorey engine... not going to happen)

Also, sure things are done by a computer, but they have to SET UP machinery to work with that computer. It's not like they can just up and say "Oh I think we'll run a few GA cams today" and do it. It requires ALOT more than that.

IGNORANCE is bliss ain't it? It's the uninformed such as yourself (I'm not calling you dumb, you just don't know what yer talking about, you're ASSuming.) that hurt our aftermarket when you bad mouth companies because you don't like their prices. BTW, it costs $2500 to get cams for the VQ35 engine (350Z) so even $1100 isn't bad for the one.

Originally posted by FastSteve
Oh by the way before someone asking how I came up with that info. I watched a special on tv about some big cam company and how that make cams. Didnt look that hard for them if they wanted to make one to get it done.

OMG that is CLASSIC. A TV show CRAMS everything in so they can fit all of the important info into a half hour block to entertain the masses. They don't mention ANY of the small details, nor do they take into consideration the time and money involved in R&D for a new product. They just list off the steps.

Sorry to call you out, but you bad mouthing a potential and VERY reputable cam company, had it coming to you.

[GTPprix]

Just a quick reply here so everyone is on the same page, I basically ran the 3800 cam program in conjunction with Comp Cams from concept to preorders for purchase to balance some of the development costs, so I know what it takes to get a program run. Comp REQUIRED a stock cam, lifter, push rod, rocker get the program STARTED (IE getting blanks tooled up and other valvetrain components), I ended up shipping them one of my 3800's to dial profiles in for maximum power, we didnt need a car for this just an engine, wiring harness, PCM and dyno time. As of yesterday, the 3400 program has been backburnered for awhile due to other programs picking up at a VERY rapid pace, this doesnt mean they hate us or dont care, just means they have to tend to the tons of business they already have before taking on a new program. You guys can obviously get regrinds (which i dont recommend) or you can hold tight for billet cams, which admittedly will probably take awhile.. On the installation problem, I havent done one on an LA1 yet, however just looking at it makes me think it can probably done the same way we do on L67's,L36's,L32's ect, by dropping the passenger side cradle a bit, its not that bad at all, I'm sure the hardcore Go-Fast guys would be willing to spend a weekend doing a cam swap...

On that note, has anyone tried to move the pushrod seat on the rocker for a slightly higher ratio? Works great for 3800's and is very cost efficent.

[phantom505]

I have a feeling that by the time I can get my hands on a billet cam, I won't want to spend the time and money having the top end torn down again (this year).

The bright idea is to have the lower intake, heads, and cam done all at the same time.

Maybe there will be a billet cam and pistons available when i want to do my lower engine next year....... here's hoping.

[FastSteve]

First of all GTManiac, I am not ignorant by any means. To test how an engine would run, you only need the engine and the computer to run. You dont need a whole car to see the results.

Second check Jegs out for cam prices. On a quick scan most cams were not over $300. Most expensive cam for LS1 was $500 and for a Honda $525. Again at $600-$800 a pop it is called RAPING the customer. Also making a choice to ignore people that just might be future customers is BAD business practices. With as much that is done by computers these days why is so hard to believe a computer is doing all their hard work for them?

You know nothing about me. You dont know how much I know, which is more then the average person. So dont call me uninformed or say I had it coming to me. A reputable company doesnt ignore potential customers or try to RAPE them with outragous prices. You say you didnt mean to come down on me? Well then I think you could have said what you had to say a little more kindly then how you put it.

[Monello]

The only reason we are going to be getting raped, is because the aftermarket for Grand Ams are SO SMALL. Yea that can sell the Cams for the honda and LT1s. and sell them for 400 bucks, and still get rich off of it. But the Grand Am, i bet wont sell anything close to it. I suppose For every Grand Am Cam sold, the LT1 will sell about 10.

So its easy to understand, the bigger the market, the lower the prices. The smaller the market, the higher the prices.

You are all dismissed.

=)

[GTPprix]

I don't this market will get raped at all, the 3800 market when compared to the 5.0 or SBC market is still VERY infant, yet we still pay the same $299 for billet cams as they do.. I think everything will work out in the end. But for the meantime like I asked, has anyone played with moving the pushrod seat to make a higher ratio rocker arm?

[mfuller]

Originally posted by GTPprix
But for the meantime like I asked, has anyone played with moving the pushrod seat to make a higher ratio rocker arm?

Here's a good shot of the pushrod seat, courtesy of mcgavinz26....I don't think there's much to work with here.

[FastSteve]

That Pat is called taking advantage of the situtation. Not a way to endear yourself to customers.

As for your question Chris. I have'nt tried that myself. Is it worth it?

[GTPprix]

I havent seen a 3400 Rocker in person, though it looks similar to a 3100 (if not identical) there is enough room in front of the seat to fill in with a weld and regrind then redrill possibly, it wouldnt take much to change it to much nicer ratio.. Anyone got one to play with? Or should I go order 12?

[GTManiac]

Originally posted by FastSteve
First of all GTManiac, I am not ignorant by any means. To test how an engine would run, you only need the engine and the computer to run. You dont need a whole car to see the results.

Second check Jegs out for cam prices. On a quick scan most cams were not over $300. Most expensive cam for LS1 was $500 and for a Honda $525. Again at $600-$800 a pop it is called RAPING the customer. Also making a choice to ignore people that just might be future customers is BAD business practices. With as much that is done by computers these days why is so hard to believe a computer is doing all their hard work for them?

You know nothing about me. You dont know how much I know, which is more then the average person. So dont call me uninformed or say I had it coming to me. A reputable company doesnt ignore potential customers or try to RAPE them with outragous prices. You say you didnt mean to come down on me? Well then I think you could have said what you had to say a little more kindly then how you put it.

you're taking alot of what I said personally, but that's up to you.

when you say alot of your knowledge is based from watching a TV show it leaves you little to no credibility on that subject.

When I mentioned it requires a car, it was a figure of speech in that it requires ALOT other than just an engine and computer, I was not for certain what all was needed, but also like Chris mentioned there's alot involved.

How are Grand Am owners potential customers if we're not spending the kind of money required to mod our cars SERIOUSLY ?(a cam is a SERIOUS mod and not just some simple bolt on. NO offense to those who all are about the bolt ons, whatever floats yer bolt.) There are a few people here that do, but NOT enough to make a cam company think they could make a profit.

C'MON! comparing a cam for the LS1 and the (I'm assuming which Honda you were talking about here) civics to the grand am is like comparing apples to oranges in popularity for modding. Sign up to an LS1 forum and you'll see what I mean, they'll have over 20,000 members and a buttload of stuff for aftermarket. Same thing or more for the honda. Also, the Honda engine is an OHC engine A $H!7load easier to install a cam into. The LS1 isn't transversly mounted and ALSO makes for a slightly easier install (some guys have done it with the engine still in place, they just tear the front end apart.) You might as well be comparing Holden's Super car Monaro to the GTO coming stateside (someone already did this and I REALLY had to hold back on verbally bashing them... ) with that sort of argument.

No, I don't know you, I have met you, but it was brief. I only know what I know, I've done the cam. I PAYED the price. W-I-L-L-I-N-G-L-Y. Same thing with people paying SA's OUTRAGEOUS price for P&P work. They figured the price was worth it and payed it. I personally would rather save a few hundred bucks and have a local shop do it (and sometimes they can do it better.)

as I've said before,

Speed costs money, how fast do YOU want to go?

Haven't got the bones to ante up? LEAVE the table. Simple as that.

Complaining about the price is CHILDISH.

Also, and this is NOT to poke fun at you or anything, but I checked out yer site and saw yer mods list and I don't think I found an item on there over $100 (ok, upon further investigation, i saw the GMS MAF... BTW you might wanna tell the web guys there that it's Mass AIR FLOW sensor ). WHY would you be interested in a cam? TPS??

Originally posted by Monello
The only reason we are going to be getting raped, is because the aftermarket for Grand Ams are SO SMALL. Yea that can sell the Cams for the honda and LT1s. and sell them for 400 bucks, and still get rich off of it. But the Grand Am, i bet wont sell anything close to it. I suppose For every Grand Am Cam sold, the LT1 will sell about 10.

So its easy to understand, the bigger the market, the lower the prices. The smaller the market, the higher the prices.

You are all dismissed.

=)

AMEN!

[phantom505]

Back to to issue at hand.....

I plan on staying NA for this cam. Anything specific I should ask for? BTW, the heads I'm having made will have much stronger springs, so will that allow me to change the lift duration? I'm new to this so please help me out.

BTW, I have a bit of money and they (cam companies) still won't give the time of day. I had to get a tracking number to the guy before he even believed me. I don't think it should take THAT much effort to get some response.

[GTManiac]

Originally posted by phantom505
Back to to issue at hand.....

I plan on staying NA for this cam. Anything specific I should ask for? BTW, the heads I'm having made will have much stronger springs, so will that allow me to change the lift duration? I'm new to this so please help me out.

BTW, I have a bit of money and they (cam companies) still won't give the time of day. I had to get a tracking number to the guy before he even believed me. I don't think it should take THAT much effort to get some response.

Stronger springs are good to avoid valve float seen with raised compression, as for being able to change lift duration because of it, I'm not sure, but changing the values of the lobe on a cam will do that for you (people do simple regrinds for this matter. With staying N/A, do you plan on raising compression? if not then explain to them that compression will be staying the same, but you want maximum power out of the cam (if yer looking for it to be aggressive) so they would have to factor in FI or anything. Best of luck with it.

[phantom505]

Yeah, I am having the heads themselves planed down by .020". I'm also having each of the combustion chambers measured to get them to match as close as possible. If I don't go forced induction, (which I am only now playing with the notion of) I plan on doing the lower engine next year. My goal is to hit about 10.5:1 because I have heard that going higher on this engine is bad....

Anyone know anything about that?

[GTManiac]

this is engine is quite capable of 11.x:1 if built right. Raising the compression on (mostly) stock internals (by shaving heads, thinner gaskets, bigger pistons (NOT forged), or any other way without reinforcing engine (valves, springs, c. rods, p. rods, etc.) is dangerous, but a built 3400 would be bulletproof upwards of 11:1. Higher than that and yer looking for problems...

[FastSteve]

First I never said MOST of knowledge was based on tv. I simply explaining how I was aware of the process cam companies go through. As for potential customers and not spending or how hard it is to do the mods. Lets see. The average person doesnt like to overpay for things, which is often what companies try to do to GA owners and the likes. I know its a bit different, but come on how the hell much different can it be. What I am talking about is the Crane cam in Jegs for a Chevy 2.8,3.1 & 3.4 V6 for $169.99. Now I know its not going to be big time high performance but its still a cam for these engines at under $200. As for installing the cam. Ask Chris about doing a cam install on the GP's w/o pulling the engine. It can be done, might be possible with a GA also. As for the cars I mentioned.

That was meant as a range of whats out there and available. As for the # of owners and cars out there. There are a sh*t load more GA's then F-Bodies out there.

As for my car. First that list is not all telling. Second, nothing over $100 on my car except the GMS! Let's see. Borla exhaust. Retails over $500. The AFPR with gauge, retails for about $180. Anybody that reads these boards knows I have the DHP upgrade. I also have a number of other things on my car that are over $100. And so I have a number of low buck mods too. Is there something wrong with that ?

Look I am not trying to argue with you. Your opinion is the price isn't too high and mine is that it is too high. Our opinions are different, we each will have to live with it. Also when did we meet as I dont recall meeting you. Sorry for asking that, but I just can't recall and I have tried. Anyway I think we both have made our points on the cam issue. As members of the same board I dont want to drag it out into a big issue. I havent taken anything personally that you said.