HID Projector Retrofit? - Page 8

Rba007 · 10-20-2003, 05:46 PM

I live on a sandune. The ground is going down. Note how the ground seems to dissapear just in front of my light. Thats cause it does. Also, note how i said that I just kinof sat the light on the bumper. its not aimed at all.

iceman · 10-20-2003, 06:13 PM

Looks sweet, like I said I'm prob gonna have to do this project... been on the back burner for a while and you are inspiring me

Rba007 · 10-20-2003, 08:07 PM

I get that all the time seth...

You know id be more than happy to help, its been fun so far, and not going to be as much of a pain as i thought. Ill re-inforce what I cut out with some aluminum a bit to keep it from coming apart on me. Glad to see I wont have to cut out much though. And all of my aimers will be useable. I was worried about that evil third aimer... But itll be fine.

5-lO · 10-20-2003, 08:28 PM

So you actually got this done? Thats awesome!

Maybe HIDs wil have to be on my spring mod list, if you want to make them ofcourse

Rba007 · 10-21-2003, 03:46 AM

Not completely done just yet:
Still have to
-Trim out, and install housing
-Aim em
-Paint the housings to cut down on glare more
-Seal Em
INstall em

iceman · 10-25-2003, 10:34 PM

OK, I think this may work. Let me know what you think. 1 relay per side. Everyone please double check (it's late ) I think this will be ok as it isolates the high beam lead from the low beam in both cases...

Circuit Description:

Ballast and High beam solenoid get constant power from pin B of headlamp harness.

Low Beams ON:

Relay coil is NOT energized, so pins 87A and 30 are connected, allowing a ground path to the ballast, and the lights come on.

High Beams ON:

Relay coil is energized by pin C from headlamp harness. Pins 30 and 87 connect, still providing a ground path fo ballast, so the lights remain on. Pin C also provides ground path to high beam solenoid and powers it.

fschambe · 10-26-2003, 05:44 AM

You are going to get a flicker when you swich, the relay takes a few MS to switch from 87to 87a when applying witching juice. I would use a second relay. Connect BOTH headlight and hibeam to seperate diodes (the ---<|--- things) that will make it so you can have on all the time signal even when switching between hi and low. then before the diode on the hi beam side connect the hi-lo solenoid. let me know if this makes sense or "me speak chinese"

iceman · 10-26-2003, 03:34 PM

You gotta draw, not sure what you are talking about..

Rba007 · 10-26-2003, 06:27 PM

I wish I wasnt a wiring Peon. Thanks for the work seth, I appreciate it!

Panacea · 10-26-2003, 10:46 PM

Seth, I think what he is saying is that you're going to have a loss of power for a split second, which is enough to cause a flicker when you switch to your high's. From what the people on HIDforum told me, is that that's not good for the ballast.

Basically, you have to find a way to keep power to the ballast, and just be able to flip the solenoid.

From doing some reading, I have a good idea as to how to wire this thing up correctly, but there's no way I can draw a diagram, and explaining it in non technical terms will somehow be confusing for you. I'll see if I can't find some of the literature that I ran across explaining the damages that can occur on the lighting system.

Panacea · 10-26-2003, 10:53 PM

http://faq.auto.light.tripod.com/headlamp-harness.html

There's the literature

"How do I make my own low beam HID harness in a car with dual headlights?

Dual headlights means that original headlamps uses H4, 9004 or 9007. You might think that below diagram looks too complex, and wonder why factory headlight connector is NOT utilized to trigger relay curcuit. If relay was triggered directly from headlamp connector, ballasts would turn off when turning high beams on, which is an unlivable situation when using HID system, because of start up delays. This diagram will pick up relay trigger signal directly before high/low beam switch and will eliminate this problem. By combining a typical headlamp stock curcuit diagram with our single filament diagram, we will get the following diagram:"

"magine that we connect the HID ballast directly to where the low beam halogen bulb is connected. Some vehicles might be are able to power up HID systems normally without problems at install time. Most probably, it will not last long. The inrush load can be up to max 13 amps per ballast, compared to 7amps inrush when using halogen. The factory design parameters for headlight curcuit is 7 amps inrush and 4.5 amps continous load. So over time, connectors, multifunction switch, headlight switch, wiring and fuse holders will slowly degrade, beacuse of heat buildup. These components are very time consuming to troubleshoot becuse they are usully well hidden behind dashboards and other wiring looms. Parts easily reaches several hundered dollars. Add 8h labour to that and it becomes obvious that a $50 wiring harness is a cheap insurance."

There is a pic of how to wire up an HID system like ours. To do it safely and use the stock wiring, you'd have to tap in between the ON/OFF switch and the HI/LOW beam switch.

Problem being -- getting to the wire that's in between those two switches and tapping into it!!!

iceman · 10-26-2003, 10:57 PM

Our setup is a little diff tho because the on/off / high beam is the same switch. Maybe it can be done at the BCM... I never thought of that actually.

Let me look in the morning.. but this can probably be done w/ just one diode at the BCM or one at each headlight harness.. gotta think about it. If we do BCM tho, I'm sure an SVS would come on after it seeing power on the low beam relay control when the high beams should be on.. sigh GM

Panacea · 10-28-2003, 11:43 PM

ttt

Seth, did you figure anything out? Also, did you read the link I posted?

Rba007 · 10-29-2003, 05:25 PM

New Update:

Got another toy in the mail today. This stuff is very moldable when heated, And I plan to make the rear of the housing outta this stuff within the next week or so. Thought I ordered a couple of small sheets, then I got this Box:

Rba007 · 10-29-2003, 05:27 PM

So, Ive got plenty of this stuff to work with!!! Its acryllic Mirror. The stuff those cool mirrors up in the ceiling at stores are made outta. Heres a quick pick, with the all scratched up plastic covering still on, but it give you an idea:

Rba007 · 10-29-2003, 05:30 PM

It apparently becomes nicely flexible with a few hundred degrees of heat. You heat it, bend it as needed, then cool it (freeze it). Apparently after the freezing, it becomes less susceptible to the heat, allowing it to be used as a headlight housing. Ill keep you all up to date of course.

This weekend, Ill be installing the units in the car, and check their aiming. Once that is settled, I will work on molding this acryllic next weekend.

10-29-2003, 05:30 PM

dave, that last pic didnt work...at least for me.

Rba007 · 10-29-2003, 05:39 PM

K, Ill try again:

Vintalage · 10-29-2003, 07:09 PM

Woah. Your doing some cool work. Pioneer.

Nice house.

Rba007 · 10-29-2003, 07:12 PM

Well, that pic isnt of my work, but its an example of how nicely this material can be played with.

Thanks! Note how empty my candy corn pumpkin is.... I should be jogging right now.

10-20-2003, 05:46 PM	#141
Rba007 GAGT Oldie AKA: Dave Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: N. Muskegon MI Age: 38 Posts: 2,444 Vehicle: 04 Grand Prix GT	I live on a sandune. The ground is going down. Note how the ground seems to dissapear just in front of my light. Thats cause it does. Also, note how i said that I just kinof sat the light on the bumper. its not aimed at all. __________________ Dave's Sexy Ride "Sul3LiME883: i'm drunk tho. i'd throw myself at a penis right now, i bet." "When you step over the line, your nuts are mine" "ArcticSun GT: u do smell dave, smell like awesomeness"

10-20-2003, 06:13 PM	#142
iceman woop woop AKA: Seth Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Cherry Hill, NJ Age: 41 Posts: 10,528 Vehicle: 97 Blazer - 84 Fiero	Looks sweet, like I said I'm prob gonna have to do this project... been on the back burner for a while and you are inspiring me __________________ --Seth Support GrandAmGT.com sponsors! My Picture Gallery \| GoneDragRacing.com Drag Racing Photos & Videos

10-20-2003, 08:07 PM	#143
Rba007 GAGT Oldie AKA: Dave Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: N. Muskegon MI Age: 38 Posts: 2,444 Vehicle: 04 Grand Prix GT	I get that all the time seth... You know id be more than happy to help, its been fun so far, and not going to be as much of a pain as i thought. Ill re-inforce what I cut out with some aluminum a bit to keep it from coming apart on me. Glad to see I wont have to cut out much though. And all of my aimers will be useable. I was worried about that evil third aimer... But itll be fine. __________________ Dave's Sexy Ride "Sul3LiME883: i'm drunk tho. i'd throw myself at a penis right now, i bet." "When you step over the line, your nuts are mine" "ArcticSun GT: u do smell dave, smell like awesomeness"

10-20-2003, 08:28 PM	#144
5-lO Just bought a. . . AKA: Jon Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Evanston, IL Age: 35 Posts: 2,950 Vehicle: 15 HD 48 XL1200X	So you actually got this done? Thats awesome! Maybe HIDs wil have to be on my spring mod list, if you want to make them ofcourse __________________ CURRENT: WHATEVER I WANT OFF THE DEALER LOT AND 15 HARLEY DAVIDSON SPORTSTER 48: LED HEADLAMP, TURNS AND TAILS, PYTHON BLACK SLIP ONS, SCREAMING EAGLE BLACK EXHAUST SHIELDS. PREVIOUS: 03 GAGT, 04 MAZDASPEED MX-5, 06 TC, 02 SEVILLE STS, 07 HARLEY DAVIDSON NIGHTESTER, 10 MAZDA3 S SPORT MANUAL, 06 SUZUKI KATANA, 11 MAZDA 3 S GRAND TOURING MANUAL TECH, 13 MAZDASPEED3

10-21-2003, 03:46 AM	#145
Rba007 GAGT Oldie AKA: Dave Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: N. Muskegon MI Age: 38 Posts: 2,444 Vehicle: 04 Grand Prix GT	Not completely done just yet: Still have to -Trim out, and install housing -Aim em -Paint the housings to cut down on glare more -Seal Em INstall em __________________ Dave's Sexy Ride "Sul3LiME883: i'm drunk tho. i'd throw myself at a penis right now, i bet." "When you step over the line, your nuts are mine" "ArcticSun GT: u do smell dave, smell like awesomeness"

10-25-2003, 10:34 PM	#146
iceman woop woop AKA: Seth Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Cherry Hill, NJ Age: 41 Posts: 10,528 Vehicle: 97 Blazer - 84 Fiero	OK, I think this may work. Let me know what you think. 1 relay per side. Everyone please double check (it's late ) I think this will be ok as it isolates the high beam lead from the low beam in both cases... Circuit Description: Ballast and High beam solenoid get constant power from pin B of headlamp harness. Low Beams ON: Relay coil is NOT energized, so pins 87A and 30 are connected, allowing a ground path to the ballast, and the lights come on. High Beams ON: Relay coil is energized by pin C from headlamp harness. Pins 30 and 87 connect, still providing a ground path fo ballast, so the lights remain on. Pin C also provides ground path to high beam solenoid and powers it. Attached Thumbnails __________________ --Seth Support GrandAmGT.com sponsors! My Picture Gallery \| GoneDragRacing.com Drag Racing Photos & Videos

10-26-2003, 05:44 AM	#147
fschambe **** every day! AKA: Fred Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: E Patchogue, NY Age: 39 Posts: 346 Vehicle: 05 Dodge Magnum RT AWD	You are going to get a flicker when you swich, the relay takes a few MS to switch from 87to 87a when applying witching juice. I would use a second relay. Connect BOTH headlight and hibeam to seperate diodes (the ---<\|--- things) that will make it so you can have on all the time signal even when switching between hi and low. then before the diode on the hi beam side connect the hi-lo solenoid. let me know if this makes sense or "me speak chinese"

10-26-2003, 03:34 PM	#148
iceman woop woop AKA: Seth Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Cherry Hill, NJ Age: 41 Posts: 10,528 Vehicle: 97 Blazer - 84 Fiero	You gotta draw, not sure what you are talking about.. __________________ --Seth Support GrandAmGT.com sponsors! My Picture Gallery \| GoneDragRacing.com Drag Racing Photos & Videos

10-26-2003, 06:27 PM	#149
Rba007 GAGT Oldie AKA: Dave Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: N. Muskegon MI Age: 38 Posts: 2,444 Vehicle: 04 Grand Prix GT	I wish I wasnt a wiring Peon. Thanks for the work seth, I appreciate it! __________________ Dave's Sexy Ride "Sul3LiME883: i'm drunk tho. i'd throw myself at a penis right now, i bet." "When you step over the line, your nuts are mine" "ArcticSun GT: u do smell dave, smell like awesomeness"

10-26-2003, 10:46 PM	#150
Panacea Mmmm Donuts. AKA: Macleod52 Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Rock Island, IL Age: 40 Posts: 3,160 Vehicle: '09 Malibu LTZ	Seth, I think what he is saying is that you're going to have a loss of power for a split second, which is enough to cause a flicker when you switch to your high's. From what the people on HIDforum told me, is that that's not good for the ballast. Basically, you have to find a way to keep power to the ballast, and just be able to flip the solenoid. From doing some reading, I have a good idea as to how to wire this thing up correctly, but there's no way I can draw a diagram, and explaining it in non technical terms will somehow be confusing for you. I'll see if I can't find some of the literature that I ran across explaining the damages that can occur on the lighting system. __________________ "Never argue with idiots. They bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience."

10-26-2003, 10:53 PM	#151
Panacea Mmmm Donuts. AKA: Macleod52 Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Rock Island, IL Age: 40 Posts: 3,160 Vehicle: '09 Malibu LTZ	http://faq.auto.light.tripod.com/headlamp-harness.html There's the literature "How do I make my own low beam HID harness in a car with dual headlights? Dual headlights means that original headlamps uses H4, 9004 or 9007. You might think that below diagram looks too complex, and wonder why factory headlight connector is NOT utilized to trigger relay curcuit. If relay was triggered directly from headlamp connector, ballasts would turn off when turning high beams on, which is an unlivable situation when using HID system, because of start up delays. This diagram will pick up relay trigger signal directly before high/low beam switch and will eliminate this problem. By combining a typical headlamp stock curcuit diagram with our single filament diagram, we will get the following diagram:" "magine that we connect the HID ballast directly to where the low beam halogen bulb is connected. Some vehicles might be are able to power up HID systems normally without problems at install time. Most probably, it will not last long. The inrush load can be up to max 13 amps per ballast, compared to 7amps inrush when using halogen. The factory design parameters for headlight curcuit is 7 amps inrush and 4.5 amps continous load. So over time, connectors, multifunction switch, headlight switch, wiring and fuse holders will slowly degrade, beacuse of heat buildup. These components are very time consuming to troubleshoot becuse they are usully well hidden behind dashboards and other wiring looms. Parts easily reaches several hundered dollars. Add 8h labour to that and it becomes obvious that a $50 wiring harness is a cheap insurance." There is a pic of how to wire up an HID system like ours. To do it safely and use the stock wiring, you'd have to tap in between the ON/OFF switch and the HI/LOW beam switch. Problem being -- getting to the wire that's in between those two switches and tapping into it!!! __________________ "Never argue with idiots. They bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience." Last edited by Panacea; 10-26-2003 at 10:59 PM.

10-26-2003, 10:57 PM	#152
iceman woop woop AKA: Seth Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Cherry Hill, NJ Age: 41 Posts: 10,528 Vehicle: 97 Blazer - 84 Fiero	Our setup is a little diff tho because the on/off / high beam is the same switch. Maybe it can be done at the BCM... I never thought of that actually. Let me look in the morning.. but this can probably be done w/ just one diode at the BCM or one at each headlight harness.. gotta think about it. If we do BCM tho, I'm sure an SVS would come on after it seeing power on the low beam relay control when the high beams should be on.. sigh GM __________________ --Seth Support GrandAmGT.com sponsors! My Picture Gallery \| GoneDragRacing.com Drag Racing Photos & Videos

10-28-2003, 11:43 PM	#153
Panacea Mmmm Donuts. AKA: Macleod52 Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Rock Island, IL Age: 40 Posts: 3,160 Vehicle: '09 Malibu LTZ	ttt Seth, did you figure anything out? Also, did you read the link I posted? __________________ "Never argue with idiots. They bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience."

10-29-2003, 05:25 PM	#154
Rba007 GAGT Oldie AKA: Dave Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: N. Muskegon MI Age: 38 Posts: 2,444 Vehicle: 04 Grand Prix GT	New Update: Got another toy in the mail today. This stuff is very moldable when heated, And I plan to make the rear of the housing outta this stuff within the next week or so. Thought I ordered a couple of small sheets, then I got this Box: __________________ Dave's Sexy Ride "Sul3LiME883: i'm drunk tho. i'd throw myself at a penis right now, i bet." "When you step over the line, your nuts are mine" "ArcticSun GT: u do smell dave, smell like awesomeness"

10-29-2003, 05:27 PM	#155
Rba007 GAGT Oldie AKA: Dave Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: N. Muskegon MI Age: 38 Posts: 2,444 Vehicle: 04 Grand Prix GT	So, Ive got plenty of this stuff to work with!!! Its acryllic Mirror. The stuff those cool mirrors up in the ceiling at stores are made outta. Heres a quick pick, with the all scratched up plastic covering still on, but it give you an idea: __________________ Dave's Sexy Ride "Sul3LiME883: i'm drunk tho. i'd throw myself at a penis right now, i bet." "When you step over the line, your nuts are mine" "ArcticSun GT: u do smell dave, smell like awesomeness"

10-29-2003, 05:30 PM	#156
Rba007 GAGT Oldie AKA: Dave Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: N. Muskegon MI Age: 38 Posts: 2,444 Vehicle: 04 Grand Prix GT	It apparently becomes nicely flexible with a few hundred degrees of heat. You heat it, bend it as needed, then cool it (freeze it). Apparently after the freezing, it becomes less susceptible to the heat, allowing it to be used as a headlight housing. Ill keep you all up to date of course. This weekend, Ill be installing the units in the car, and check their aiming. Once that is settled, I will work on molding this acryllic next weekend. __________________ Dave's Sexy Ride "Sul3LiME883: i'm drunk tho. i'd throw myself at a penis right now, i bet." "When you step over the line, your nuts are mine" "ArcticSun GT: u do smell dave, smell like awesomeness"

10-29-2003, 05:30 PM	#157
rodd62 Guest Posts: n/a	dave, that last pic didnt work...at least for me.

10-29-2003, 05:39 PM	#158
Rba007 GAGT Oldie AKA: Dave Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: N. Muskegon MI Age: 38 Posts: 2,444 Vehicle: 04 Grand Prix GT	K, Ill try again: __________________ Dave's Sexy Ride "Sul3LiME883: i'm drunk tho. i'd throw myself at a penis right now, i bet." "When you step over the line, your nuts are mine" "ArcticSun GT: u do smell dave, smell like awesomeness"

10-29-2003, 07:09 PM	#159
Vintalage Hey paisanos! Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Maryland Age: 38 Posts: 5,490 Vehicle: 2002 Grand Am GT1	Woah. Your doing some cool work. Pioneer. Nice house. __________________ 2002 Grand Am GT1 Sedan - Black 7000K HID PICS [SOLD to Jscarano]

10-29-2003, 07:12 PM	#160
Rba007 GAGT Oldie AKA: Dave Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: N. Muskegon MI Age: 38 Posts: 2,444 Vehicle: 04 Grand Prix GT	Well, that pic isnt of my work, but its an example of how nicely this material can be played with. Thanks! Note how empty my candy corn pumpkin is.... I should be jogging right now. __________________ Dave's Sexy Ride "Sul3LiME883: i'm drunk tho. i'd throw myself at a penis right now, i bet." "When you step over the line, your nuts are mine" "ArcticSun GT: u do smell dave, smell like awesomeness"

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