Chevrolet Cobalt News: Photos of the SS sedan on dealer lot

[Mike3800]

Originally Posted by Vintalage

Yes they are. From what I've read, the 500 is selling real well. There are many pre-orders for the vehicle. There best vehicles are their luxury vehicles.

No, they are not. You need proof? I DARE YOU to test drive a Mustang GT and then test a GTO again.


Or test a slow heavy ass 500 and then drive... an Accord or something. No.. if you compare head to head you will see the truth.

Hows the slow heavy ass 500 compare to the 300? Same price range.

[fo44rd]

Originally Posted by thehemi

I still wish they made a supercharged SS model out of the sedan, too.

Stop it with this 4 door thing.......It is killing what is left of 2 doors out there, which is not many.

[fo44rd]

Originally Posted by Mike3800

No, they are not. You need proof? I DARE YOU to test drive a Mustang GT and then test a GTO again.


Or test a slow heavy ass 500 and then drive... an Accord or something. No.. if you compare head to head you will see the truth.

Hows the slow heavy ass 500 compare to the 300? Same price range.

Yes nothing like compairing apples to oranges. GM has about 8,000 dollar more to work with here. You couldn't get a Mustang GT with every option in the book to sticker as high as a GTO.

Secondly, 250 horse Duratech is around the corner. It is going to be in the 2007 models. I too have been critical of Ford for this.

my question to you:

What does GM have that can even be compaired to an Accord without laughter breaking out? What does GM have that can compete with a 500 FWD SEL with a 25,000 dollar sticker????

[fo44rd]

Originally Posted by Mike3800

Tragicly Ford isn't cappable of making good used or new cars.

Look at all the fleets in your area. Just about every fleet runs Ford from you friendly local police department to the Electirc and phone companies, etc. GM has been low bidding fleets for years to try and get a foothold in the market and it hasn't worked. I worked a fleet for a while and that is all they would buy for it. They don't buy them because they are a bad product, but rather the best product availible at a given price point. I think every fleet would be Honda if price at purchase was not a consideration.

[Mike3800]

Originally Posted by fo44rd

my question to you:

What does GM have that can compete with a 500 FWD SEL with a 25,000 dollar sticker????

I can't think of anything in the GM lineup that weighs 3800LBS with a little bitty 203HP 205Ft.Lb V6.

You win.

Wait...



my bad... that's an older Ford... better power to weight ratio with the 75 (much mor torque) and same luxury etc... my bad..

Nope... can't find anything that heavy and slow.

[Mike3800]

Originally Posted by fo44rd

Secondly, 250 horse Duratech is around the corner. It is going to be in the 2007 models.

250HP? DAMN!! That is UNHEARD of!! GET OUT! a 3800LB car with 250HP? Do you think the US government will let people have that kinda power? Tell me it doesn't have more than 210Ft.Lbs of torque, cause the frame might buckle under that kind of twisting force.

Wait... I just realized you mentioned 2007, well, perhaps by then all the other car companies might come close to catching up so it won't be such a daring and bold move for Ford putting that kinda powerplant in a 3800lb sedan. So this could happen!! I can't wait to test drive this thing... I bet it burns out on a gravel road and everything!! More importantly, I bet it has GREAT performance for getting a Honda Civic like 17MPG highway. Damn... I give up.. NOTHING compares to this car.

[Mike3800]

Originally Posted by fo44rd

my question to you:

What does GM have that can compete with a 500 FWD SEL with a 25,000 dollar sticker????

Grand Prix Sedan: Impressive handling and power made affordable.
Base MSRP: $23,720* before incentives

Standard Features
• Next-generation WideTrack Handling System
• 200 hp, 230 lb-ft torque, 3.8L V6 engine with Electronic Throttle Control
• Near 90-degree opening rear doors
• 60/40 split-folding rear seatbacks
• Dual-stage air bags**
• OnStar with one-year Safe & Sound Plan***
• Driver Information Center
• AM/FM stereo with CD player, equalizer,
and 6 speakers
• Remote keyless entry
• EPA mileage estimates†
20/30 (city/highway mpg)


but that's old news. Actually I can't think of a GM sedan that DOESN'T have better value than the old porky weak 500.


Buick lacrosse starts at 23G and goes to 28G... 10x the car the 500 could ever aspire to be.

[fo44rd]

Originally Posted by Mike3800

Grand Prix Sedan: Impressive handling and power made affordable.
Base MSRP: $23,720*


but that's old news. Actually I can't think of a GM sedan that DOESN'T have better value than the old porky weak 500.


Buick lacrosse starts at 23G and goes to 28G... 10x the car the 500 could ever aspire to be.

These cars are non-factors to those cross shopping Camry and Accord, well and Altima to a lesser degree. All these car you mention are riding on a modifyed GM-10 platform. That platform came out in 1988 for crying out loud! If you bigest worry on any car is playing stoplight racer, just buy the accord v6 and be done with it.

You just don't get it. There is more to a car than slamming the gas. Toyota and Honda didn't gain the market share they have by being the fastest car on the block. The built the most reliable, durable, sophisticated cars on the road at their given price points. Exactly what Ford is doing with the 500s. Once again the cars you mention, very crude due to their outdated underpinnings with a refreshened skin.

[VTECSiGAH8R]

Not to mention the Grand Prix isn't fugly and boring like the 500. Read articles about the 500. Not a single one can really get over how anemic the car is. I have never read an article about a new GM sedan that's come out that was nearly as bad as the 500, mainly because although they say the GMs may lack the hp, but they definately have torque and low end grunt, and the superior mileage makes up for a lot of the hp woes. The 500 has as ****ty mileage as the 3800 SUPERCHARGED in the GP GTP, which has a mere 60 more hp and 80 more ft-lbs of torque. Not to mention that it only uses a 4 speed auto and the 500 has a 6 speed or CVT availible.

The 500 was the most unimpressive car I've seen from Ford since the Tempo. Hell, I'd rather have the Taurus than this POS, even if the interior is nicer and has gobs and gobs of space..

[Mike3800]

Originally Posted by VTECSiGAH8R

Not to mention the Grand Prix isn't fugly and boring like the 500. Read articles about the 500. Not a single one can really get over how anemic the car is. I have never read an article about a new GM sedan that's come out that was nearly as bad as the 500, mainly because although they say the GMs may lack the hp, but they definately have torque and low end grunt, and the superior mileage makes up for a lot of the hp woes. The 500 has as ****ty mileage as the 3800 SUPERCHARGED in the GP GTP, which has a mere 60 more hp and 80 more ft-lbs of torque. Not to mention that it only uses a 4 speed auto and the 500 has a 6 speed or CVT availible.

The 500 was the most unimpressive car I've seen from Ford since the Tempo. Hell, I'd rather have the Taurus than this POS, even if the interior is nicer and has gobs and gobs of space..

I could not have stated it better myself.

Sure there is more to a car than power, but with luxury comes power. If you have a luxury oriented car it needs to have ample power like every single other lucury oriented car on the market. I won't even get into handling.

If all someone wants is a slow gas sucking quiet tank then the 500 is the car for them... or a mint condition 1975 Ford LTD with an MP3 player and a standalone navigation system etc...

[jake3217]

Originally Posted by fo44rd

What does GM have that can even be compaired to an Accord without laughter breaking out?

Pontiac G6.

Now, I know I'm going to get flamed for this but hear me out (though 99% of you reading will probably skip over this and continue to flame anyways).

The 4-door Accord LX w/V6 MRSP's at 23,800. The Pontiac G6 w/V6 MRSP's at 21,300. Advantage G6, but it's fairly even, so let's call the price difference negligable for someone shopping for a new midsize 4 door.

The Accord has a 240hp, 212ft-lb V6 with most of its power in the high end of the tachometer. The G6 has a 200hp, 220ft-lb V6 with a whole lot of its power in the low RPM range. Technically, the 3500 is better for driving around town since 99% of the driving you do is in the low to mid RPM range, but once again, let's call this a wash for the average buyer.

The Accord LX-V6 comes with the following options:
• Drive-by-Wire Throttle System™
• Anti-lock braking system (ABS)
• Electronic Brake Distribution (EBD)
• Traction Control System (TCS)
• Driver's seat with 8-way power adjustment
• 6-disc in-dash CD changer
• 16-inch wheels with full wheel covers

The G6 w/V6 comes with the following options:
• ETR AM/FM stereo with CD player and Driver Information Center
• Variable-effort power steering (EPS)
• 4-wheel disc brakes
• Remote keyless entry
• Telescopic steering
• Power windows and programmable door locks
• Cruise control

Slight advantage Accord, but I'm sure most people looking at new cars can deal without 8 way power adjustable driver seats and 6 CD in dash changers.

The Accord gets 21/30 for mileage, the G6 gets 22/32 for mileage. Slight advantage G6, but once again a wash.

Styling and looks are objective. So don't give me this BS that the G6 looks bland, because to me and many others it's really not. In fact, I'd venture to say the Accord is much more bland looking than the G6. It's a two way street.

It's too early to tell about reliability for the G6, but there have been no major complaints about the 3500 yet, and it's been out for a year+. I suppose that would be an advantage for the Accord, but once again it's too early to tell.

The Accord's resale will probably be better too, seeing as how the G6 is already being penned as a fleet vehicle (might be wrong about this, but I swear I remember reading it somewhere).

Well damn. It's pretty much straight up until you get to the resale. The only thing holding the G6 back is Pontiac's stigma. And to the average buyer (read: non-enthusiast), that really doesn't make a huge difference.

And please, don't give us any more of this "does GM even have anything that can compete with an Accord?" crap. I'm sick of it, there is nothing mythical and magical about the Accord that sets it head and shoulders above everything else.

[VTECSiGAH8R]

The Accord's headers are welded onto the heads. Good luck modding.

[Mike3800]

Screw both and go for the Subaru Legacy GT. 250HP 250Ft.Lbs very modifyable.

[VTECSiGAH8R]

Originally Posted by Mike3800

Screw both and go for the Subaru Legacy GT. 250HP 250Ft.Lbs very modifyable.

Mash the pedal...

__________/|

Legacy power curve.

[Mike3800]

Naaa... it's better than that. You were confusing the Accord's VTEC engine with the Subaru's boxer 6. The Accord has the one that has no low end torque.

http://www.fast-autos.net/subaru/subarulegacy.html

"Active Valve Control System (AVCS) variable valve timing technology helps optimize low and mid-range torque and high-end output, and the Legacy 2.5 GT engine is characterized by a wide torque curve for outstanding power at all speeds. All Legacy engines for 2005 use an Electronic Throttle Control (ETC) system, sometimes referred to as “drive by wire” or “throttle by wire.”


Peak torque at 3600 RPM's.


Where is the peak torque on an Accord?

[VTECSiGAH8R]

Originally Posted by Mike3800

Naaa... it's better than that. You were confusing the Accord's VTEC engine with the Subaru's boxer 6. The Accord has the one that has no low end torque.

http://www.fast-autos.net/subaru/subarulegacy.html

"Active Valve Control System (AVCS) variable valve timing technology helps optimize low and mid-range torque and high-end output, and the Legacy 2.5 GT engine is characterized by a wide torque curve for outstanding power at all speeds. All Legacy engines for 2005 use an Electronic Throttle Control (ETC) system, sometimes referred to as “drive by wire” or “throttle by wire.”


Peak torque at 3600 RPM's.


Where is the peak torque on an Accord?

I know, I was just kidding. Still, reviews have complained of the lack of smoothness I believe, due to lag. Well, they did with the STi at least, which uses pretty much the same engine. I'm sure the Legacy is more refined, but I don't know how smooth it is compared to an n/a v6.

The Legacy GT will offer a 250 hp flat 6 tho, which is pretty interesting. I like the options.

[Mike3800]

Originally Posted by VTECSiGAH8R

I know, I was just kidding. Still, reviews have complained of the lack of smoothness I believe, due to lag. Well, they did with the STi at least, which uses pretty much the same engine. I'm sure the Legacy is more refined, but I don't know how smooth it is compared to an n/a v6.

The Legacy GT will offer a 250 hp flat 6 tho, which is pretty interesting. I like the options.

It's my favorite mid size sedan right now, even above Grand Prix *the sound of shocking music* . IMHO nothing compares for bang for the buck right now in it's class.

[VTECSiGAH8R]

Originally Posted by Mike3800

It's my favorite mid size sedan right now, even above Grand Prix *the sound of shocking music* . IMHO nothing compares for bang for the buck right now in it's class.

Well, it's styling and performance and looks are very good for the category.

What's surprising to me is that I don't think the Gran Prix has taken off. I was sure with the improvements in the outside and in power and the interior that it would sell much better. I mean the only real competitor it had was the Maxima, and now it has the 500.

I mean I see them everywhere, way more than I see the Maxima, but I don't think sales figures match what I've percieved.

[Mike3800]

Originally Posted by VTECSiGAH8R

Well, it's styling and performance and looks are very good for the category.

What's surprising to me is that I don't think the Gran Prix has taken off. I was sure with the improvements in the outside and in power and the interior that it would sell much better. I mean the only real competitor it had was the Maxima, and now it has the 500.

I mean I see them everywhere, way more than I see the Maxima, but I don't think sales figures match what I've percieved.

Have you seen the sales figures? I haven't. I see them everywhere too (Grand Prix's).

The 500 is the worst car I have seen from Ford.

[AznGA]

Originally Posted by Mike3800

Grand Prix Sedan: Impressive handling and power made affordable.
Base MSRP: $23,720* before incentives

Standard Features
• Next-generation WideTrack Handling System
• 200 hp, 230 lb-ft torque, 3.8L V6 engine with Electronic Throttle Control
• Near 90-degree opening rear doors
• 60/40 split-folding rear seatbacks
• Dual-stage air bags**
• OnStar with one-year Safe & Sound Plan***
• Driver Information Center
• AM/FM stereo with CD player, equalizer,
and 6 speakers
• Remote keyless entry
• EPA mileage estimates†
20/30 (city/highway mpg)


but that's old news. Actually I can't think of a GM sedan that DOESN'T have better value than the old porky weak 500.


Buick lacrosse starts at 23G and goes to 28G... 10x the car the 500 could ever aspire to be.

Today I saw a new "base" Grand Prix. Other than the single exhaust tip, it didin't look any different than GT. Compared to a V6 Altima, I think Grand Prix is a pretty good deal.