Took off CAI today, car has LOTS MORE RESPONSE!!!!

[SilverEcstasy]

Originally posted by Jagey
so does shoving a cone filter in the airbox and closing the lid offer any sort of advantage at all

Well think about it. An airbox is concealing air and feeding off 180 degrees of surface area. A open cone is feeding off of 360 degrees of open surface area (which can be mucky and hot thus adding nothing at all but a nice growl to the open throttle). But a cone in a box would just expand the surface area, but the box is still only allowing the same air as it was before. The engine just has more surface area of the box to get air from.

The entire point of an intake mod is to increase volume and air supply to the engine. A cold air intake allows air to be fed on a cooler source and traveled up towards the engine in the least restrictive way possible. An airbox is a simple way to get engine it's air supply without going too crazy on design and efficiency while saving the manufacturer money on its cost-effective, scam designs like our amazing ram air. One day, i'll take down the assembly from the garage attic and i'll take a picture of the "pretzle" as I like to call it, and you can tell me if its a great way to supply air to the engine or not. It may not be as effective as the title RAM AIR implies, but thats ergonomics for ya as GM loves to call it

[mr_eh]

Originally posted by GrandAmChick
Don't think so.. I asked about that when Erika was putting her's on at GAP.

my friends 4 cyl probe and 4 cyl galant (2.4 engine) both had maf's... but since 2 of us say we dont have one, then we dont need one =P

and Kdawg207 thats what i told people to look at in a previous post - IMO wai with a cold air box = best setup you can have...

[SilverEcstasy]

Unfortunately, opinions don't matter when it comes to marketing and actual horsepower gains Pasqual :-) Sorry, just pickin on ya.

[mr_eh]

well, im not going to say again and again that wai + box = better because i dont have any mechanical/engineering formula's to proove it... just logic

[ryGT1]

I didn't read all the posts, so sorry if somebody already said this, but...

the BEST is CAI + Pro-M MAF. (on my car anyway)

Tony, I went though the same thing you are doing now. I tested back and fourth between the stock setup (minus the tube thingy) and my APOC CAI. I tried about 4 different cones to see how much of a difference those would make. The stock setup yields the best low-end, but it has no pull after that. The WAI just plain sucked (I was doing this in the summer, upper-end was okay, but there was obvious heat-soak) and the CAI has a great top-end, but no low-end.

So, I went out and got that Pro-M MAF in Oct. of last year. And man, what a difference. All the low-end of the stock setup, with the top-end pull of the CAI. TheOldGuy and myself both made posts about it, search and you can find them.

[Avsguy01]

I think we can all agree that CAI + MAF is the best setup!

[BadGT471]

I have the CAI, and I noticed a huge difference in low end over the stock set up.. If I would punch my car, I would never really feel the power till I hit about 4 grand then It would put you back... With the CAI, I still get a little bit of a lag off the line, but ti seems quicker then the stock set up... Definately picks up like a raped ape at about 4 grand...... I love the sound of my CAI and the SLP exhaust together though

[MIAaron]

This is what I wrote in november:
"My 00 gt with a cai is in the shop. I got an 03 gt as a rental. I can not believe the difference in the two cars from just that alone. I was thinking about putting the stock intake back on for a while but after driving without it I realize how much it really does. It's odd, I couldn't tell much a difference when I put it on. I will say my car shifted better with the stock intake, and so does the 03. Much firmer, quicker shifts."

Yes, different cars. But when I drove the 03, it felt like mine used to. Even my gf commented on it.

I will say my car had it's best shifts with the K&N drop-in filter. It had firmer shifts, and pulled harder right after the shift than stock or CAI. The rental sure did get rid of a lot of my doubts though.

[Blackrider]

This is just like Backpressure Less Restriction in the exhaust less bottom end. but you make up for it up top.

[johnh]

I can't believe the stock thingy is best..engines are basically air pumps...the more you put in and take out the more power you make (assuming you add the right amount of fuel). Less restrictive is better. Colder is better and straighter is better. Old drag racers used to just take the air filter off completely. The less restriction the less vacuum(pressure difference) in the intake the engine has to create to get the air in--the more responsive and higher end you should get.

So a bunch of you have the "calibrated MAFs" I am still wondering what the difference is at the PCM? Anyone look with an autotap? I would expect to see the engine running lean without the new settings. I think I read something on here that DHP and Pro-M didn't work well together. (that makes sense to me--the both probably compensate for the same thing).

As I said earlier the MAF sends a voltage signal to the PCM telling it how much air is coming in. The PCM uses this to add/remove fuel and such. It seems you could accomplish the same thing with a reprogram--if you can reprogram the MAF voltage table..does DHP do this? (On the third gen f-bodies..you can burn your own prom and tune it wish we could do that here!)

Has anyone looked at MAF rates/voltages between the two? My reasoning is if its just a simple voltage upgrade you could make one from cheap parts from Radio Shack and plug it in..for alot less than $249/449.

I guess the best solution would be being able to reprogram the PCM (over and over like LS1Edit, or Hypertech).

[safemode]

bah, dont upgrade the exhaust until you're blowing your cat and muffler baffolding through your tailpipe and onto the car behind you.

[ryGT1]

Originally posted by johnh
I can't believe the stock thingy is best..engines are basically air pumps...the more you put in and take out the more power you make (assuming you add the right amount of fuel). Less restrictive is better. Colder is better and straighter is better. Old drag racers used to just take the air filter off completely. The less restriction the less vacuum(pressure difference) in the intake the engine has to create to get the air in--the more responsive and higher end you should get.

So a bunch of you have the "calibrated MAFs" I am still wondering what the difference is at the PCM? Anyone look with an autotap? I would expect to see the engine running lean without the new settings. I think I read something on here that DHP and Pro-M didn't work well together. (that makes sense to me--the both probably compensate for the same thing).

As I said earlier the MAF sends a voltage signal to the PCM telling it how much air is coming in. The PCM uses this to add/remove fuel and such. It seems you could accomplish the same thing with a reprogram--if you can reprogram the MAF voltage table..does DHP do this? (On the third gen f-bodies..you can burn your own prom and tune it wish we could do that here!)

Has anyone looked at MAF rates/voltages between the two? My reasoning is if its just a simple voltage upgrade you could make one from cheap parts from Radio Shack and plug it in..for alot less than $249/449.

I guess the best solution would be being able to reprogram the PCM (over and over like LS1Edit, or Hypertech).

Well, I've had the ASE chip for over two years, and just added the Pro-M. Couldn't be more happy

[Jagey]

so baaaaaaaaaasically this thread can be summarized like this:

Having a WAI is fun for about the first 5 minutes that you start your car, then it turns into crap after that.

CAI is for people that race a lot, or spend a lot of their time at WOT. It makes everyday drivability (below 2.5 k rpm for normal people) even crappier.

The stock setup sucks if you want to race or slam on the gas alot, but for the everyday driver who uses way more bottom end and the ones who are more insterested in AVOIDING SPEEDING TICKETS, it's the best way to go.

If you have a lot of extra cash, want the performance, and are convinced you are keeping your car for a good amount of time, yet still want the everyday drivability, the CAI with the calibrated MAF is the best way to go.


THE END

[safemode]

it is the end, but you contradict yourself with suggesting cai as the optimal choice for both. It's likely that the pep with the stock is caused by warmer air due to all the restrictions, the computer is meant to work with it. denser colder air might be causing knocks or throwing off the timing, also, the temp of the air after the maf might increase significantly due to all the aluminum tubing instead of plastic, the aluminum would conduct much much more heat into the air inside (from engine bay air) than the plastic section would, perhaps throwing off any correction values assuming a certain amount of temp/density change from the sensors to the point it's mixed with fuel.

The stock intake is a cai that's quite restricted, causing a higher vacuum pressure and higher intake temp than your standard cai. Why this would be helpful to the engine at any rpm is strange since the cai introducing colder denser air would introduce more fuel into the combustion and give you more power. So either restriction is good sometimes for intakes (doesn't seem likely) or one of the reasons stated in the above paragraph are correct. The idea that the restriction is the cause is also further discouraged by people getting behind wai becaus of it's even less restrictions helping performance, citing temp as the only drawback. So apparently using all this, the optimal tradeoff is warm air (never too hot or too cold) but very low restrictions. The temp to keep your stock computer happy and response tight, and the lack of restriction to keep that top end free flowing.

[SilverEcstasy]

I mean honestly..why don't 3 people, each with one setup take it to a dyno for $100 and test it.

Seat-o-pants meter doesn't help and neither does opinion. Instead of sitting here and debating all day, take it to a track and a dyno.

Borla + APOC CAI
163.3 whp / 180.8 ft-lbs
15.425 1/4 - 86.86 mph

[Pontiac Ninja]

Earlier a few people were debating the horsepower gain versus what mods you actually have with the CAI. Well did anyone read the December HPP?? No one has mentioned it on here. They have the exact set up that I will have (minus MSD wires) and they basically got an extra 25 hp with the SLP exhaust and the APOC CAI!! Now that is nice! Anyone have a dyno with the Pro-M MAF that everyone likes to gain the low end back??? I want to get that later on also!

[johnh]

I think in the HPP article it was only 19hp. But more importantly I seem to remember the dyno curve showed torque and power increasing all the way across the band. This would seem to refute the low end loss. (I can't find the darn issue...or else I'd scan it id and post it...)

[Ant]

^ at the end of everything, that car was making 198hp.... = 23 hp gain.

[Kdawg207]

Originally posted by safemode
bah, dont upgrade the exhaust until you're blowing your cat and muffler baffolding through your tailpipe and onto the car behind you.

OFF TOPIC

I like all these new NJ guys around


OK On Topic

My CAI didn't really do diddle until I got the calibrated cold air MAF from Pro-M...Then it was all worth it

[Avsguy01]

Just wondering what ill be pulling with my mods.....Ill be close to the 14 bracket, hopefully.