Turbo Specs

[mfuller]

Okay, that enough with the mud-slinging. Keep it civil or this thread will be locked.

[Doug]

ok. i'm done

[phantom505]

Whatever.... now that I found out he doesn't even own a GA anymore I could care less about what he has to say.

Sorry Germ, if you want I'll PM you the specs later. At least I can trust that you'll put them to good use.

[Doug]

I still have my GA. Its great for commuting.


ok I'm really done

[SpyhunteR]

Originally posted by phantom505
You weren't kidding about life starting at 20 psi. From what I can calculate it will take you 20 psi just to put down 275 HP at the wheels.


And you're going to pull the same weight, take 50 lbs.

I have a feeling the 20psi comment is wrong.


I weigh 2700lbs right now. That's stretching 50lbs.


I'll just keep quiet, I'm not out to cause a ruckuss when I'm not anywhere near finished w/ my lil flame spewing beast.

[phantom505]

Okay, this what I used to calculate that....

150 ci with intercooler using 20 psi. What the actual ci of that engine? This was using turbocalc. It's been dead accurate for so far.

How the heck did you get the car down to 2700 lbs? The stock curb weight is 3066lbs according to the book. That's a lot of weight dumped.

[Germ]

ok, back on topic here guys. thanks for the offer of the PM phantom, i would love to know what the specs are on the turbo.

i did go look at the garrett turbo site, and was looking at their new GT brand turbos. granted they are not the t3/t4 i am wanting to get, but i could get a general idea of what the average specs would need to be for a 3.4 liter engine.

what needs to be cleared up is that the compressor side AND turbine side have trim AND a/r.

going off of garrets recomendations.........

(average)
Compresion side - 79mm wheel diameter
- 53 Trim
- .61 A/R
Turbine side - 73 mm wheel diameter
- 79 Trim
- 1.09 A/R


so lets clear the air, clarify which spec your talking about please.

lets try to keep this informitive please, i dont want this locked. we are all adults and can be civil about this

[nocutt]

I hate it when good threads turn to this kind of crap like that other club...!! settle this on the black top...and put your money where your mouth is...this is still bench racing...

Germ
...I think it really depnds on certain criteria...the most important is what you really WANT to do with the aforementioned engine/vehicle...I have been doing this for a while...I will tell you for a ~200ci engine an A/R more than .63 for the street isn't fun...but then there are other factors:
There is a difference between opinion and percpective...I have seen several 3.4turbos...(in fieros). So i think I can speak from percpective...
If you had a manual tranny then getting a high A/R will be beneficial because you can load the engine quicker/earlier/easier, while moving* If you have an Auto then getting too big an A/R will cause you to loose some streetabilty...HOWEVER if you building a TRANNY throw this outta of the window...now you can play more with drivetrain components...FWD likes big turbines because you don't loose grip (low RPM) easy...with a built tranny, you can use a slip to spool the turbo now and with slicks make use of the torque and not be afraid to break the tranny...The only catch is...you must have the mula...LOL!! For the street and maybe occasional strip...I will not go over .76 on the turbine side...remember, it isn't black magic...but you tune a turbo's character via wheels...a big housing is cool, but you are still going to get to crossover due to valve event and nature of F.I. therefore getting a big housing to offset backpressure "for the street"...will be a compromise...you loose streetabilty BIG time. My relative has a BUILT GN motor, he still uses .83 on the hotside while running low 11's and the motor revs to 6300RPMs...I know apples to oranges, the point?...it is a built motor...turbo specs are all over the place...but WHAT ARE YOU REALLY TRYING TO DO, that is the question? Top-end, low end, mid range, draggin', roadrace etc? My opinion is shoot for something in the middle...average power...mid range ALMOST ALWAYS wins...
let's stop the mudslinging...this info is for everyone!!

[Germ]

well, to be honest, i am just looking this stuff up in books and the internet so i really dont know what i am talking about. i am just trying to learn this stuff so i can make an educated choice on the right turbo size and setup. ive looked at all the turbo setups in the GA's and Monte's and no one is even close to each other but everyone is getting the results they want.

the results i want are.........

300+ whp EVENTUALLY, not right at this moment, but the final deal. but i want a turbo that will produce that goal when i want it to.

i want streetability and dragability. this will be a daily driver, for the most part.

i want the turbo to spool at roughly 3000 rpm, so i dont loose my cruisabilty, and max out at my redline, which will be set at roughly 6000

the tranny will be built up with HD parts, LSD, shift kit, and whatever else i can find for it. just like the hp, i will eventually be built up, not all at once, but it will get there.

as with everyone, funds are the limitation.

right now i have roughly $3000 IN THE BANK to do this, i just done want to go nuts with it all and blow it on stuff i dont want, need, or wont like the result.

HOWEVER, i am NOT buying a kit, dont like, never will. i want to do this myself so i can enjoy the build and say I DID THIS. im just needing a little guidence,, ya know? AND i am doing this ON A BUDGET, i am not spending more than $450 for a turbo, i am not spending a **** load of money on other parts, i.e. bov, wastegate, fmu, etc.....

i have found the extra parts i want and all the turbo stuff i need for less than $1000.

here are a couple links i have found on ebay for some decent looking turbo's with spec's that seem to be close to what the general idea is here.... tell what you think about them, good or bad........

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEBWA%3AIT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEBWA%3AIT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEBWA%3AIT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEBWA%3AIT

and i know this one has ended, but this guy has the same stuff up all the time

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEBWA%3AIT

[Germ]

one other thing, someone explaine what the difference is between internal and external wastegates?

what the hell is the cylinder thing that is on some turbo's? i have seen it refered to as the accuator? is that like a stock wastegate?

i am only wanting to do 6'ish psi right now, so what would be recomended for that?

if the turbo comes with an accuator, or whatever its called, can i just get a boost controller for that to adjust the psi as i want?

[phantom505]

The accuator (that cylinder) is basically a wastegate, because it's directly connected it is consrtructed a little differently. In functionality it is a wastegate.

I would get a 38mm TiaL wastegate with a 6 pound spring. You can get a manual boost controler for about $75 that will allow you to add boost in ~1 psi increments.



After some discussion with HP Performance this is what I can tell everyone about the turbo. It has a 57mm compressor (thought it was 60mm, that was the orginal plan, but they dropped it a little bit). The exhaust A/R is .81 They will not disclose what they use for a wheel on the exhaust side because it is a cut down wheel, ie it comes from a larger one. So you CAN NOT buy this part unless you get it from them. It's truely custom.

That should give you some idea of what to expect.

[SpyhunteR]

Originally posted by phantom505

After some discussion with HP Performance this is what I can tell everyone about the turbo. It has a 57mm compressor (thought it was 60mm, that was the orginal plan, but they dropped it a little bit). The exhaust A/R is .81 They will not disclose what they use for a wheel on the exhaust side because it is a cut down wheel, ie it comes from a larger one. So you CAN NOT buy this part unless you get it from them. It's truely custom.

That should give you some idea of what to expect.

A clipped wheel?

[phantom505]

To clarify, the wheel that is in there was orginally for a larger housing. So what they did was trim the wheel to fit a smaller one.

Like I said, you can't buy it on the market.

[Germ]

so if the turbo i buy has that accuator/wastegate on it, can i use that for now instead of shelling out the 200+ for a tial? could i hook a boost controller up to that accuator?

thats all i really need to clarify at this point i think.

by the way, many turbo shops will clip a wheel for ya, but it can run up to 300-400 bux for that. i looked into that option.

i would rather buy it right the first time,

[phantom505]

I'm sure they will do that for you, but I have no way of knowing what to start off with unless I crack it open... which I'm not going to do.

Anyway, yes you can add a boost controller to an actuator, but I would almost bet that it will cost about the same.

[aleroboy]

I'd rather have an external wastegate like the kit comes with

[nocutt]

An internal WG is OK...as long as you aren't planning on pushing "too much boost"...(It will depend on the turbo, the setup etc) an external WG just helps control boost more...eg no spikes, creep blah!blah!! If cost is a factor get an internal WG...Ultimately it is cost...!! Also I will get an Electronic Boost controller...I mean if you are trying to be cheap fine...but two places I will not cheap out is the turbo*, the engine management...boost controller (electronic...gives you SO MUCH POTENTIAL)...

Tom,
can you clarify? your turbine wheel is originally from a bigger turbo...shoved into a smaller housing?...yikes...that thing must flow...like a MOFO...what is the turbo rated @ then...lb/min?
I am thinking out loud here...you might need to delve into a Cam development or/and heads, if you haven't started to think about it? ( I haven't been active...my fault if you have to repeat yourself...) ;0

[phantom505]

Comp is working cams, I hope they can help me out. I already have a sick set of heads, but I'm not sure what the CR will be with them on. I'm holding off for a little bit becasue if I higher an engine builder to build up a 3400/3500 for me then I won't put them on before GAP. If a builder puts it together I'm going to leave the CR to about 9.5:1 or a little less. However, I certainly don't want it to go up, unless he says I can.

IF that falls through then I'll put them on.

The flow through on that turbo is about 41 #/min (max).

[Licienced99]

hello.....im new to all this mod stuff and i want my car to have alot more hp. i've looked around a ton and i've seen different things ...turbo is something i'm lookin into but i don't know what all is required, how much it's gonna cost. i also want a borla exhaust and "the other guys" headers, any of you know if these are good to buy? also cold air intake, injectors, tranny? ...all things im hearin i should get done. please help me out. feel free to add the amount of hp, whatever it takes to get me knowin what i need to get. thanks!!!!

[SpyhunteR]

First thing you should do is read the forums for a few months, learn a thing or two, you should also read a few books on boost/superchargers/turbocharging, take a basic automotive class, talk to local guys, read the forums some more and go from there before you decide where you want to spend your money on the car...

that's waht i did.