200 HP to the wheel N/A

[PontiacGA]

Originally posted by phantom505
This is why I went from an All Motor stance to getting this kit built. The fun starts at 3500 RPM.

And ends at 8200.

[GLH1985]

Originally posted by Mike_99GAGT
does anyone know what NISSAN does to get so much HP out of there V6's????......they are only 3.5L engines arnt they???

I know, wonder what magic they are doing.

Even their 2.5L 4 banger puts down like almost 150whp stock. My friend said that there are some guys with bolt-ons running 190whp. I mean thats like 1 liter less then us almost and its a 4 banger.

He said that the 190whp ones are running like 14.2's in a sentra.

We need a better aftermarket, when 4 banger sentras can start walking a detroit 6 we got problems.

[phantom505]

Look at their torque values... or lack thereof.

[GLH1985]

They are putting down more torque than HP.

[phantom505]

<sigh> Look at the torque CURVE. It's a big spike.

[GLH1985]

Where does it spike? You mean that they are making like less than 100lbs/ft and then spike to like 170lbs/ft to make it look good?

[GLH1985]

My only experience is with my friends se-r. He has that spec v and it is like tuned by nismo or something. That car is fast and it has power across the board.

Its suspension feels like a race car. So I don't know if that made it feel faster, but I don't think I could make the GAGT compete with that thing around a race track. I mean even with 100 more hp that thing would kill us in turns and stuff.

[FORTEEN3GT]

since when is a grand am a sport compact??? it is more of a grocery getter/ sleeper!

[phantom505]

In order to make that much power on any size engine you have to wind higher and/or make it more free flowing on both the intake and exhaust side. That's the only way to displace more air to get more HP. So it's power profile has spiker torque curve than a GA. We have much more mid range than they do. Their peak torque on a stock 3.5L V6 from Nissan makes 265HP@5800 and 255TQ@4400. I am curious to know if any of the small power adders like headers or CAI's do anything for them.

My guess is you tear down a 3.5L from GM and build it again with a higher lift cam, with good exhaust and intake flow and you'll be near those numbers. I think Nissan has put more effort into tuning the higher end. I haven't had the chance to see one in action becaue most people that I know that have bought that engine don't have the money to play with it much.

About the suspension... that's that not too hard to do. With a limited slip in the tranny and beefier springs/struts/sway braces we can do pretty good. The biggest problem would be an automatic isn't very good for that kind of racing as far as I can tell.


I don't think it would be hard to get a 3.4L over 200 wHP, but at a minimum you would have to play with the top end some. We'll see what Comp comes up with. I bet we can lift much higher.

[GASE03]

??????????? "In order to make that much power on any size engine you have to wind higher and/or make it more free flowing on both the intake and exhaust side.That's the only way to displace more air to get more HP." ???????????????????????



It dosent mater how much air you have ready for then engin to take, or how much room you have for it to exhale. That won't increase your engin's displacement.But, yes it dose help to increase air flow, and alow's your car to run at it's full potential (compared to the restrictive stock intake/exaust). Displacement, is in area the piston's have to move in and that area can only hold so much air. So that statement was false, And the winding higher part was also a little off, b/c the main point of winding a engin higher is to squeize all the torq that you can out of the engin. That's why a civic si with less HP than our car's can keep up in the Quater mile. b/c when they get too the higher revs they have more torq. HP can't doo anything unless you have the torq to back it up.

[phantom505]

I edited that before I posted and it got a little hacked up. Sorry will fix. It shold say "about 3.3-3.5L".

And about the high winding... yes that effectively makes you draw more air at a faster rate. That part is fine. At 3000 RPM you are using exactly half of the volume of air you are using at 6000 RPM, if you have the same intake effeciency. That's how most race engines work. They wind 12,000+ RPM.

About the Civic comment, how about 800 pounds let's them keep up?

You speak like an engine volume is a static component. It's not. The amount of air (which amounts to power) you draw in is a function of rate volume with respect to time. Hence why boost works. Don't say something is untrue if you don't know. That's why more lift or longer durations help on the cam. You allow more air into/out of the engine. If what you said was true, then there would be no point in ever changing the cams. Which we all know is not true.

Torque and HP are the same thing, with a different measurement. What torque helps you see is how the engine is set up.

HP = (TQ*RPM)/5252.

If you look at the equation, torque basically shows what large HP will do on the bottom end. It's just a conversion factor to show how much power the engine can build and it oddly give some parity HP numbers. Basically an engine with higher torque at comparable displacement has more low/mid power.

[GASE03]

Dude don't even try it. It sound's like you know a good bit about car's and ill give you that. but you need to tuch up on the comment's like "Torq and hp are the same thing"!!!!!!!!!!!!. Yes they are relitave to each other and when you change one the other change's. But torq is actuly how much the force your engin put's out Mutilplied and if you think this is wrong then explain the different gear's in a transmission. And the civic comment, i said "stock in my post", i wasnt talking about your car or any other tuned GA. On the cam topic yes your are right the cam is designed to let more air in (as i said letting your engin work at it's maximum potential). You can only fit so much air into a cylnder( in other word's displacement/volume) which is musered in liter's.so yes it is static(if when you say that you mean a exact mesurement) and agin if you think that's wrong then explain the two causes of backfire. And on the comment of not knowing anything about this, just to let you know i went through 2yr's of school for Auto mechanics ,and am ASE certified.


P.S: on a personal note i wasn't trying to atack you or anything even though it did come across that way. Sry if that's how you feal.

[phantom505]

,and am ASE certified

Here we go.

Do you know any Calculus? Look that the equation and tell me how Torque and HP are NOT the same times a scalar value.

The cylinder volume is static. That's a gross over simplification.

[GASE03]

Don't know much calculus. So i probly couldent hang with ya thair but i know that every mechanic's book and every teacher/mechaniac/race engin builder ive been tought by when i asked if tq/hp were the same thing, shot me down like i was a dumb a$$. Also check the post before this one i had edited it almost the same time you sent your last reply.

[phantom505]

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question622.htm

Show that to them and have them tell me that they are not measuring the same thing on a different scale. It's about the same difference as a inch to centimeter.

[GASE03]

Ok i see what your saying ive used that equation before only in reverse. As in changing HP to trq. And that dose explain how they are the same in a way but like i said thair relitave(directly related). They are not the same as in thair definition. So in a way were saying the same thing only your thinking about it on a more advanced level than me.

Im not much of a math person b/c im only good at it when i have the formula on a paper(bad memory). Ive delt with equation's that are as advanced as Trig, and calc, but can't go much further than that. So i do understand some advanced math but only enough to get by. Anyway's later

[KpazzH0ly]

Hey why dont you both stop bitching because ur both right. YOu do need torque, thats the most important thing in a 1/4 mi. Torque usually comes with HP. The way I see it phantom is right, we do need a better cam, and that will potentially give us much more power. BUT GASE03 is right the 3 main things to do to a car is displacement, cams, and tranny to gain the most amount of power. WTF are you going to do with all this power with out a good tranny. Are car can be fast now, we just need the right gear ratio. But since you guys are knowledgeable please help me out on my thread http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showt...threadid=32572

[PontiacGT2K]

The Nissan motors have DOHC. That's why they make a lot more power with less displacement.

Torque curves on the Nissan motors are decent.....any DOHC motor will generally make more power top end....but they at least keep a fairly flat curve.

[phantom505]

http://www.teknett.com/pwp/drmayf/analyses.htm

I found that. It's a really really good set of equations to calculate things. I'm still looking for one that will give me maximum theoretical HP at a given displacement.

Another one:

http://www.modernmusclecars.net/articles/carmath.html

[GLH1985]

There is no maximum theoretical HP for a given displacement.

Torque would be easier to theorize vs displacement (N/A).

HP is going to be variable because of RPM.

Example:

A 3.0L engine makes 200ft/lbs of torque. Now if that 3.0L engine is only efficient enought to make that torque to 5000RPM's it would be making a maximum of 190HP.

Now if you take that same 3.0L engine making 200ft/lbs of torque but now it is able to make it at 7500RPM's it would be making a maximum of 286HP.

That is why you couldn't accurately plug in a displacement and come up with a theoretical amount of HP.

I would gladly give up 1 liter of displacement for moving my torque curve up the RPM band by 2000RPM's.

The argument that torque wins races is false. HP wins races. With more HP and proper gearing you can make more effective wheel torque. Where the power meets the road. Its all about gearing and HP.