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Old 07-26-2003, 10:00 AM   #41
AmIGrand
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With those amps, I don't see the need for all that, but it certainly makes for a solid foundation!!

The 4 awg is sufficiant, the wire front to back only needs to hold the current that'll be recharging your rear battery. Due to resistance differences, most of the power pulled by your system will pull from the rear battery. Uprading it with a second run of 4 awg or switching to 2 or 0 wouldn't hurt though, with a 160 amp alt and all. If you wanna go to the effort, go for it - but I wouldn't say it's "necessary" per sey.

As for the fuses - I usualy go with whatever the alt is rated at, just because. So a 150 or 160 on either end would be my recomendation.
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Old 07-26-2003, 11:28 AM   #42
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It is pretty neccessary... I dim quite a bit at night without even cranking my system (my 80wat headlights and high output foglights don't help, I'm sure). Keep in mind, PPI's are VERY power hungry amps. And that audiobahn sucks quite a bit of juice too.

Just looked at the back of my amps... My PPI has two 40 watt fuses and my Audiobahn has two 30 watt fuses... so I think it's safe to say my system uses quite a bit of juice. (not to mention the 50watts rms that I'm feeding my tweeters).
So yeah, the more I think about it, the less I'm surprised that I'm having dimming issues. Hah.
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Old 08-04-2003, 05:10 PM   #43
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Another suggestion to help reduce dimming that I haven't heard mentioned yet.. This has helped me in my previous car (base model '93 escort hatchback).

Check your ground cables. Don't neglect them. Run them as short as possible and as fat as possible from the amp(s). 4 Gauge is good, but I ran 2 gauge in my escort and the massive dimming I had from my 2500 watt system (135amps total) went away.
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Old 08-29-2003, 11:57 AM   #44
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I seem to be having the same problem that everyone else is having. Ever since I had added the Yellow toped bat. I had less problems with being able to start the car. A few months had gone by and I started to notice when I set my car alarm the horn was really quite. I just figured it was no big deal and went on with life. But the last few days the bat has been dead and I have had to jump the car even after turing the amps and everything off. I put my bat. on charge last night and I think that helped quite a bit. What Im thinking is that the alt can't keep my bat fully charged. So would adding that extra cable from alt->bat and upgrading the alt help me out in this case. At night when the lights are on, stero W/o the subs and amp on, and i try to roll the windows down the lights dim to about 30% and now and then the ABS light comes on. If someone could help me out that would be a big help. Also if I add that cable from the amp to the alt, do you fuse it or what all do you need to do? Thanks alot. Below is all the stuff thats in my car.
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Old 08-29-2003, 02:22 PM   #45
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Your alternator is dead or dying, and not charging the battery properly. replace it with a higher output model to prevent this from happening again.
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Old 12-08-2003, 01:39 PM   #46
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ive been reading this thread for a while and it helps out quite a bit. but ive got a question that i havent seen anybody else ask yet. ive got a 03 grand am with a kicker SX 1250.1, two Kicker S12L7's wired with 2 gauge wiring. i plan to add a high output alternator and a seccond battery but i dont know how to install a seccond battery. can anybody out there give me instructions on how to install a seccond battery. im completely in the dark. mainly stuff like what battery is good, what kind of wire and procedures. thanks a bunch
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Old 12-10-2003, 09:22 PM   #47
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In more detail than was given in the thread....

It's very simple, really. Wherever the second battery is, there are only 3 things you really need - a power wire connecting it to the primary battery, a ground wire, and something to control the flow between the batteries.

Assuming the second batt is in the trunk, it'd be like this:

Run a large guage (4,2,or 0) power wire from the underhood battery positive terminal to the rear one, just like you would for an amp. Make sure there are 2 fuses on this wire, one within 18" of EACH positive terminal (on either end). Between the two fuses, usually under the hood but it doesn't really matter, you'll need a dual battery isolator or a dual battery relay. I prefer the relays, they're much less expensive and easier to install, and a true isolator is only necessary with really complex systems. Basicly the relay will wire inline on the new power wire, and have a switched power wire to trigger it. When the ignition is off, the relay is open, seperating the batteries. When the key is in the "on" position, the relay closes, and the two batteries are wired in parallel. Make sure the rear battery has a good clean ground wire of the same guage as the power wire, either to the frame or a long one to the ground terminal on the front battery - the "proper" way, but not necessary.

As for the batteries themselves -

The Optimas are a good option, Redtops are made for underhood duty, Yellowtops as the secondary. Using the same in both locations won't hurt anything, but if you're buying them anyway, get a Red and a Yellow. I'm a big fan of the Hawker AGM units, sold as Odysee, Stinger, and other names. They're a lot smaller than the Optimas, and offer a lot more options as far as battery size and power. Prices are a little higher, not a lot, though.

Hope that helped....
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Old 12-11-2003, 10:19 PM   #48
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Thx AMIGRAND was waiting to find out about the relay!!! Maybe this spring when things thaw out here!!
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Old 12-13-2003, 12:14 AM   #49
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wow that helps a lot, just one more question. how do i wire from the new battery in the trunk to the amp? does the whole setup from hood battery to amp go like this.
Hood battery->Fuse->dual battery relay->Fuse->trunk battery->fuse->amp
and then the ground just goes to any grounding point from both the trunk battery and also the amp. also what size fuse should i use? thanks for all the help
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Old 12-13-2003, 08:58 AM   #50
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Dont buy a red and yellow, buy a red and a red. The yellows are no good they arent really deep cycle batterys
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Old 01-29-2004, 12:28 PM   #51
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Now I'm mad...
So I have just purchased an Exide Orbital extreme battery and run 2/0 gauge from alternator to battery, Battery to motor ground, battery to fuse box and 4/4 g from the fuse box to the amp. I no longer dim to black but I still dim the alt has already been rewound and measured at 145 Amp at 15000 RPM WTF is all I have to say.... I'm running a Sony mp-70 deck (20 Amp) a thump 600W amp (25 Amp){ I know its crap} and an MTX 6290D (775Watt) (40Amp) and a 1 Farad Cap and I am out of Ideas.
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Old 01-29-2004, 01:21 PM   #52
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Quote:
Hood battery->Fuse->dual battery relay->Fuse->trunk battery->fuse->amp
Correct. Run a ground from the amp to the rear batteries negative terminal, that's one helluva clean ground. Just make sure the battery in question has a solid ground connection to the frame back there.

tbone - I'd have to guess that you have a weak ground somewhere. You mentioned that you replced/added the various power wires underhood, but you only mention the battery to motor ground. Try adding an additional battery to frame ground, and upgrade the alternators ground strap as well. Then make sure tha amplifier grounds are all up to par. If this doesn't work, we get into the item by item check with a voltmeter....
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Old 02-21-2004, 04:58 PM   #53
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I guess you could call this a success story? I go to a car audio shop to get all my "stuff" done. My car even has a website for all the mods, etc (although its one install behind - I'll update soon). Well, I have a JL 12W3 pushed by a 600 watt amp and another amp (500 watts perhaps?) powering my Kenwood Excelon Dualmags. I have an excelon headunit, sirius satellite radio and CD changer. I'll often be listening to my stereo from the CD changer or sirius, driving along with my additional fog lights on (so all 4 lights) and my heated seat going without any dim of power - even when stopped. From the posts I've seen on here, I would presume that I'd have about 10 % light output based on all the stuff I have running! Well, who knows. Could some of you folks have the SE, having a smaller alternator which isn't able to keep up to the drain of the systems? Who knows, just thought I'd be a success story...

my website: http://members.sounddomain.com/dalazernet

Check it out, I'd love comments from the GA community :-)

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Old 02-21-2004, 09:20 PM   #54
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Oh don't worry - after it's been in there a while with more hours of hard use, it'll be dimmin'....
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Old 02-22-2004, 10:18 PM   #55
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Hey bro i was looking a your future system Diagram. Rear speakers suck unless you are planning on doing a 5.1 or surround sound movie system. Go with the 300/2 and put some more power to the front components and just eliminate the rear speakers they are worthless.

And as far as what you just posted, i woulnt call it a sucess story, cause i have a 300/4 and a 500/1 pushing a 12 W7 and i have No light problems a with low notes or high volumers. and i have an SE
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Old 02-23-2004, 12:19 AM   #56
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Rear fill is a matter of personal taste, there is no "right" or "wrong" outside the SQ lanes!!
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Old 02-23-2004, 12:34 AM   #57
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that's what i think. i don't see how people can say they're worthless. i can tell a big difference between the rear speakers working and not. i was playing with them the other day and i think i would get used to not having the rear's, but i prefer to have them.

i don't have a light dimming problem in the GA. got 1700 watts rms and even with lights on, blinker on, a/c on, system turned up, windshield wipers going the voltage doesn't move. and it's the stock altenator. but i do have a 2nd battery and a cap :P. but before i had the battery i had 2 different amps hooked up to the 18" and the lights didn't dim. a bd1500 and a 550S, both fosgate. the bd1500 was pushing around 750 and the 550 was almost 600. and the only thing i had added was a 1 farad cap. lights didn't dim with the system up sitting at a stop light.
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Old 02-23-2004, 08:23 AM   #58
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Right i would say the only time rear speakers are not worthless is with 5.1 or if you have alot of people in ur back seat. But if you want the best SQ with what you got, eliminate rear fill becuase music dosent come behind you at a concet.
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Old 02-23-2004, 10:29 AM   #59
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Wow, I'm so happy that people went and looked at my car :-). I suppose I should really update my future system diagram. My original intentions were to go JL for all the speakers, etc, but I fell in love with my Kenwood Excelon Dualmags that I have up front (which sound incredible). The rear speakers are still stock but were put on my new kenwood amp....so basically, I'll update my image later this week to reflect my actual choices, etc. And re: the rear speakers, yes - its true that they are a bit worthless (in my GAGT coupe at least) since I wouldn't subject a passenger to my back seat. Albeit the 5.1 is an interesting idea....not sure if I want to get a screen and DVD going in there just yet. I had thoughts of getting one of those kenwood navigation systems with the screen up front that could also play a movie...but time will tell. I'll update that site and future mods page soon to be correct...sorry, didn't realize how out of date it actually was ;-)...

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Old 02-24-2004, 12:05 AM   #60
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but we're not trying to reproduce concert sounds. we're trying to fill a car with as much sound as you can . if you still have rear speakers go out and turn the fade all the way to front and turn the car up. then with the volume turned up put the fade 50/50 and tell me you can't hear a difference.

i changed the rear 6x9s in my moms bonneville and can tell a big difference in sound, especially at higher volumes
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