GrandAmGT.com Forum
http://www.pfyc.com GrandAmGT.com Premium Memership Signup
RotorsOnline.com   

Go Back   GrandAmGT.com Forum > GAGT - Modifications - Sponsored by RedlineGoods.com > Car Audio, Video & Security > Car Audio Reference Material

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-09-2005, 06:44 PM   #61
matthar924
GAGT - Member
 
AKA: Matt
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Columbia, MD
Age: 37
Posts: 46
Vehicle: 1999 Grand Am SE2 GONE
matthar924 Gettin' there
Send a message via AIM to matthar924
I gotta say, I was disturbed by Everclear saying yellow tops are crap. I burned out a Red top in about 2 years and just put in a yellow. Granted, I've been repairing accident damage and haven't really driven the car at all for about 4 months, but the yellow top seems to be at least as good as the Red. At least with the yellow top, Optima offers a warranty if it's being used with upgraded audio components, whereas the Red Top specifically states it is not covered under warranty with additional audio components. I am running a 550.3 Kicker Amp for my rears and sub, and a small ALpine amp for my fronts and had problems with lights dimming, but the red top cleared that up and no troubles from the yellow as of yet. I also have a 160amp alternator sitting at the mechanics shop that will go on for extra help too...I'll have him upgrade the wiring from the Alt to the Battery as well and I should be set.
__________________
99 GA Gone! Traded in for 50 bucks for..........
08 Civic EX Coup Manual Nighthawk Black Pearl
Cardomain pics
matthar924 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2005, 12:45 AM   #62
cad_99gt316
IM THE JUGGERNAUT B!
 
cad_99gt316's Avatar
 
AKA: Cesar D.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Houston
Age: 34
Posts: 113
Vehicle: 1999 Grand Am Gt
cad_99gt316 Gettin' there
ok, well since this thread is kinda old, i hope that someone reads my question! of course my guestion is about why my lights dim. i guess they dim at about 15-30%. what i have in the trunk is a 12" Punch HX2 and a 1200W Boss amp. turned up halfway. i wanna totally elimanate the dimming, but would i really need a 2nd batt.? or upgrade the alt.? i dont have a complex system, just a amp and a sub. please help.
__________________
"It's a show about nothing!"
Quagmire-"Dear diary, JACKPOT!!!"
cad_99gt316 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2005, 03:21 AM   #63
bubbajim
Obsessed w/my GAGT
 
AKA: Brian
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Brentwood, CA
Age: 43
Posts: 54
Vehicle: 2002 Grand Am GT Coupe
bubbajim Gettin' there
Send a message via AIM to bubbajim
A lot of suggestions are already posted in this very thread... but to repeat a suggestion that I know has worked for me in the past.. make sure you use the shortest path possible for ground and use the fattest gauge your amp can handle. The same can be said about the power lines too. The more resistance in your system is not good, so the larger gauge wiring will help reduce the dimming. I have a 600 and 1000 watt amp in my setup and only start to dim when i have the volume cranked to levels that are just too painful to listen too, plus the car would rattle apart if left at that volume. :-)
bubbajim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2005, 06:21 AM   #64
DevilDriver
GAGT - Member
 
DevilDriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Age: 31
Posts: 270
Vehicle: 03 Chevy S10 Xtreme
DevilDriver Gettin' there
Quote:
Originally Posted by cad_99gt316
ok, well since this thread is kinda old, i hope that someone reads my question! of course my guestion is about why my lights dim. i guess they dim at about 15-30%. what i have in the trunk is a 12" Punch HX2 and a 1200W Boss amp. turned up halfway. i wanna totally elimanate the dimming, but would i really need a 2nd batt.? or upgrade the alt.? i dont have a complex system, just a amp and a sub. please help.
you are most likely suffering from a poor battery or you need a higher power alternator. i personally suggest getting a higher power alternator.

as far as the whole "cap or no cap" topic, here goes:

so we've all heard of the case where someone just installed a sub/amp combo that does 500 watts and their headlights and interior lights are dimming when the bass hits. supposedly, the miracle fix is a 1 farad capacitor which suddenly stops this from occurring. i'll start off by saying a little background info about capacitors.

capacitors are constructed by separating two or more conductors called plates with an insulator called a dielectric. if an AC signal is applied to a capacitor's plates, the current will flow through the capacitor. what actually happens is that if an AC signal is applied to the plates, the capacitor will charge one way (hence current flows), then when the AC signal reverses direction the capacitor discharges and then charges in that direction. this makes it appear that the AC current is flowing through the capacitor. a DC voltage connected to the same plates will not pass through the dielectric, and no direct current will flow through. therefore, this capacitor will accomplish a few things: it will block most DC current (accessory noise suppresion), and it will store an electrical charge that can be used later.

now in theory, if your alternator is correctly charging the battery, then the battery will do a much better job of blocking DC current from being sent signal-wise and also produce the required amperage to power your vehicle and your vehicle's sound system. so why is a capacitor used? i personally don't use them except in show situations, however i imagine that in many applications, a capacitor is a more affordable solution than getting a new alternator and battery when you are only having a small power problem. also, it is likely unrealistic that a battery will do a perfect job of filtering DC current.

however, what happens when you are using so much power that you have drained the capacitor? at this point, yes the capacitor is still filtering DC current, but you're also trying to charge the battery and capacitor at the same time. once again, the solution to your problem is an alternator that will power your vehicle correctly.

my point is not that capacitors are useless, but rather that they are being used incorrectly. a capacitor should be used for filtering/blocking of DC current rather than to power your amp when the battery is being drained. and if you are choosing to run a capacitor for power storing purposes, a 1 Farad capacitor is really not a very good solution as all it would take is a couple quick bass hits and your cap would be drained. a 10 Farad capacitor would be a much better answer if you're using one simply for power storing reasons. none of this, of course, takes ESR into accout, but you get the picture.
DevilDriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2005, 10:41 PM   #65
MNGT1
GAGT - Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: MN
Age: 34
Posts: 3
Vehicle: 02 Grand AM GT1
MNGT1 Gettin' there
Send a message via AIM to MNGT1
OK One Quick Question to add just to see what people Say. On First off Im Running a Red Top With 4awg running to 2 monster 1fared caps then to 1000watt, 100amp Rockford amp. Running 2 12 type R's. I have 4awg running to my alt from batt, At Idle and at night when running close to 180 watts of lights my lights dim 15-20% just enough to **** me off, I just placed an order for a Mr Alt 160 amp to replace my stocke 105amp.....Do you guys Think will fix the problem???
Thanks
MNGT1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2005, 07:17 PM   #66
DevilDriver
GAGT - Member
 
DevilDriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Age: 31
Posts: 270
Vehicle: 03 Chevy S10 Xtreme
DevilDriver Gettin' there
heh, just playing with numbers and here's some fun calculations regarding the recharge rates of capacitors:
time in seconds = (0.5*FARADs*TARGETVOLTS*VOLTSIN)/Power supply in J/s
we'll assume a 100 amp alternator (roughly the equivalent of most stock alternators) at 14.4 V. that's 1440 watts or joules/second

so,
t=(0.5*1Farad*12.6V*14.4V)/1440
t=0.063 seconds to recharge

what if it's a 40 Farad capacitor?
t=(0.5*40Farads*12.6V*14.4V)/1440
t=2.52 seconds to recharge

what if it's a 40 Farad capacitor and your amp and vehicle are already drawing 95 of your 100 amps?
t=(0.5*40Farads*12.6V*14.4V)/72
t=50.4 seconds to recharge

now you get the idea why a capacitor is not so handy....
DevilDriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2005, 07:57 PM   #67
AmIGrand
Car Audio Guy
 
AmIGrand's Avatar
 
AKA: Jamin
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Vegas, Baby!
Age: 42
Posts: 993
Vehicle: '05 Ion Redline
AmIGrand Gettin' there
Send a message via Yahoo to AmIGrand
Perfect, . I wish I woulda had those formula a long time ago! It's crude, not accounting for internal resistance and other variables, but it works. Nice work!
__________________
Las Vegas Motor Speedway (2200 ft): 15.922 @ 86.70 MPH, stock '98 2.4 / 5 speed coupe with a K&N drop in filter and crappy tires (2.3 60's). Gone now....

R.I.P. 1993 Oldsmobile Achieva SCX W41, parted out.

2005 Pacific Blue Ion Redline, competition package, set up for SCCA Stock class, Koni Yellows/Hawk pads/Powergrid endlinks/245/40/17 BFG R1's for race day...
AmIGrand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2005, 10:07 PM   #68
DevilDriver
GAGT - Member
 
DevilDriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Age: 31
Posts: 270
Vehicle: 03 Chevy S10 Xtreme
DevilDriver Gettin' there
the funny thing about capacitors is that once there is zero available amperage and your system is at full tilt, the recharge time of a capacitor becomes infinite. the fact is a capacitor cannot truly solve the issue which is a lack of available amperage. a capacitor simply cannot create any form of amperage and the amount that it stores only offers temporary assistance.

one thing i haven't seen mentioned yet is the effects of ESR. in order to remain truly effective, a capacitor should have an ESR rating of 0.001ohms. what perturbs me is that most widely available capacitors have ESR ratings of 0.003 ohms and higher. the higher farad capacitors tend to have consistently worse ESR ratings as well, in some cases as high as 0.04ohms! that's ludicrous.

here are some more fun calculations involving ESR.
ir=v
where i=amperage of system
r=ESR rating of the capacitor
v=voltage drop experienced

100*0.001=.1V :this correlates to 14.3V system
200*0.002=.2V :this correlates to 14.2V system

that's not too bad. let's setp it up a bit to something you're more likely to find.
100*0.003=.3V :this correlates to a 14.1V system
200*0.003=.6V :this correlates to a 13.8V system

now for the drastic example. this is a 40 Farad capacitor with 0.03 ohm ESR rating. this is from a major company that we recently dropped from our sales floor.

100*0.03=3V :this correlates to a 11.4V system
200*0.03=6V :this correlates to a 8.4V system

now you see how ridiculous it's getting. a large capacitor, while having greater storage capabilites, also has substantially larger recharge time as i indicated earlier AND substantial voltage drop due to the large ESR. of course, it's a good example of the lack of knowledge shared by most people within car audio. there are invariably people who don't know the difference between marketing and engineering the same way there are people who don't know the difference between sounds good and sounds loud.
DevilDriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2005, 10:57 PM   #69
Metallman56
Bears Fan
 
Metallman56's Avatar
 
AKA: Metall
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Indiana
Age: 32
Posts: 3,853
Vehicle: 2001 grand am gt coupe
Metallman56 a trusted member
punkorama is right about the capacitor. you just cant create power from a cap. however i have a ohio generater alt. the thing is suppost to put out no less then 160 amps at idle and max power is 190 amps. heres the problem. since the g.a. idle is only 650 rpms, the alt isnt spinning fast enough to create much power. i mean less then 12 volts, not alot of power. once you get the rpms up to about 800ish the lights get brighter and i have serious power again. thats one of the things i really dont like about it. one more thing is that when i am really rockin, you know bass that makes it hard to breath, my lights still dim. not as much or nearly as bad, but they still do. i almost never have it that loud though. but if i did it would **** me off.
Metallman56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2006, 08:45 PM   #70
Mendoza
RK-GT
 
Mendoza's Avatar
 
AKA: Javin
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Whitehouse, Ohio
Age: 34
Posts: 1,642
Vehicle: 2001
Mendoza Gettin' there
Send a message via AIM to Mendoza
^^^^^^^
You just have to get a diffrent pulley (I think they sent me a ford pulley). I got it free from Ohio Generator shipped with the alternator and i set my idle at 800 rpm's (by adjusting the bolt on the bottom of the throttle body) and my voltages sits at 14.4.
__________________
2001 RK-GT
http://community.webshots.com/user/Mendoza1113

Last edited by Mendoza; 02-06-2006 at 08:49 PM.
Mendoza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2006, 02:02 PM   #71
96GaGT
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
my gt normally runs around 800-1k rpm at idle. but it's not the stock engine... it's another 3100 out of a lumina apc van from chevy. so i guess it has a lil bit different tuning for that. besides the extra hp and torque . but i still get dim lights when i'm thumping. i can't turn it up really loud.

how do you test capactitors? because i think i might have shorted something or another. i was hooking the capacitor back up when the screwdriver i was using slipped out of my hands and crossed both the +positive and the -negative terminals. almost fusing the screwdriver to it. i immediately got the screwdriver off but the cap didn't work. at least then it didn't ... so i uninstalled the cap.

what i'm wondering... because no fuses blew at all.. i have two on my amp and one on the battery. the cap and amp are grounded to the chasis with 8ga wiring. it's a Lightning Audio la series amp rated at about 600watts rms bridged and at 900watts max. I have it powering 2 pioneer premier 12's 400watts rms each 1000watts max. I know it's not nearly enough for my system and could have been part of the problem.. but it still bumps pretty damn hard... but the problem i am having is that whenever i turn the car on or off the subs pop. not sure how to describe it. but other than that there is nothing else i see or hear wrong with it. oh yea and the capacitor is working again now... not sure if it is working properly or not.. but the digital readout on it lights up now when when that happened it wouldn't. so it seems like everything is working fine... it's just that i have that noise. And if i turn the bass boost +12db on... i can't turn the system up much at all and the popping comes at intervals of different times....

i'm just wondering if my amp and cap are screwed and that i need new ones. i don't really have the money to replace them now. the cap i have is a volfenhag 1.5 farad digital cap that i got off of ebay. from what a friend of mine said they are pretty popular in germany. but i dunno about the company never heard of them before. The amp i got from walmart. it was on the clearence rack for like 60 bucks. now walmart sells it for like 150 bucks. so i figured i made out like a bandit . I know don't ever buy electronics from walmart. but the road gear amp that i had powering my one 10 (which is now my computer sub) works really good and still going strong. the subs i got off ebay too.. the guy here was wanting like 115 bucks a piece for the lowest end premier model. i got mine for 77 a piece after shipping. i didn't realise it at the time when i ordered it but i didn't get dvc... i thought i was ordering dvc... oh well... i really want the newer premiers.. that are like 300 bucks a piece... that'll be my next upgrade.. these kick arse so i don't see me changing just yet. :P

any ideas as to what the problems might be? everything else is stock.... the wiring from the alternator to the battery and all the ground wiring is stock too. only wiring that is different is the 8ga that runs from the battery to the cap and amp. and the 8ga ground from the amp and cap to the chassis.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2006, 09:41 PM   #72
GrandAmGT1996
letstrysupercharged?
 
GrandAmGT1996's Avatar
 
AKA: Brandon
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lancaster, PA
Age: 29
Posts: 2,355
Vehicle: celica&boosted mustang
GrandAmGT1996 Gettin' there
Send a message via AIM to GrandAmGT1996
Ok, this almost seems to easy...but my question is this how you would have to hook up two batteries in a car. I read through the first page on the How-To type thing, but kinda got it, but kinda didnt. I made an attactchment with the picture, is that how easy it would actually be?
Attached Images
File Type: gif battfa6.gif (18.3 KB, 8 views)
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantBeatIt96 View Post
that fart can, is a $200 can, its a skunk2 turbo mega power can, its bad ass. its the thing that gets my car the most creds
94 Celica - Lowered 4", tint, rims

[SOLD] '01 R6 (limited edition) - Akrapovic exhaust, Scotts Performance Steering Stabilizer, Penske Rear Suspension, Racetech Front Suspension, K&N Jet Kit, and more things I'm probably forgetting.
GrandAmGT1996 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2006, 10:23 PM   #73
96GaGT
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
it seems that it would be that easy. so yes. you read it correctly. what you are doing is wiring the batteries in a loop. the current flows in a circle correct? (not sure about that one). the battery being used for the amp (second batter) would drain first. then the main battery would charge the second battery. but also while running the car the second battery gets charged. but it's not drawing much current from the alternator because it is already fully charged. it just keeps topping it off every now and then when your not thumping real loud.

no is someone gonna answer my question(s)? :P
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2006, 11:25 PM   #74
GrandAmGT1996
letstrysupercharged?
 
GrandAmGT1996's Avatar
 
AKA: Brandon
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lancaster, PA
Age: 29
Posts: 2,355
Vehicle: celica&boosted mustang
GrandAmGT1996 Gettin' there
Send a message via AIM to GrandAmGT1996
I'm really considering a second battery now...does it have to be within (IIRC, I read 18in) 18inches of the other one...or can you run wires to the trunk and have it in there?

Your question, about the popping...my best guess would be possibly your RCAs but I'm not positive. Also, try a bigger ground...maybe 4 gauge.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantBeatIt96 View Post
that fart can, is a $200 can, its a skunk2 turbo mega power can, its bad ass. its the thing that gets my car the most creds
94 Celica - Lowered 4", tint, rims

[SOLD] '01 R6 (limited edition) - Akrapovic exhaust, Scotts Performance Steering Stabilizer, Penske Rear Suspension, Racetech Front Suspension, K&N Jet Kit, and more things I'm probably forgetting.
GrandAmGT1996 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2006, 08:53 AM   #75
Metallman56
Bears Fan
 
Metallman56's Avatar
 
AKA: Metall
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Indiana
Age: 32
Posts: 3,853
Vehicle: 2001 grand am gt coupe
Metallman56 a trusted member
hey mendoza how did a pully set your idle higher? that doesnt make sense.
__________________
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/209706...am?action=demo


So you proved your point about the camaro - condense your sig.
- Your friendly Administration
Metallman56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2006, 10:37 AM   #76
AmIGrand
Car Audio Guy
 
AmIGrand's Avatar
 
AKA: Jamin
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Vegas, Baby!
Age: 42
Posts: 993
Vehicle: '05 Ion Redline
AmIGrand Gettin' there
Send a message via Yahoo to AmIGrand
If his idle has changed - I don't think he said it did - it's because he changed the idle, . The problem was that most cars idle at between 800 and 1000 RPM, and the GA idled at 600. The Ohio alt was designed for the higher idle and didn't make enough juice at 600 RPM. The smaller pulley sped up the alt in relation to the engine speed.

Wiring a second battery - if you run them in parallel (your diagram shows a parallel connection, correct) you're essentially doubling the size of the battery. You can mount them wherever you want, just make sure they're secured well, fused, and properly grounded. Batteries can also be wired in series, but that would make a 24 volt system instead of just a bigger 12 volt, and that would be rather bad for the car, .

That brand isn't even German, and the only places it's popular are ebay and swapmeets. Not to be rude, just sayin'. The cap is prbably not bad quality 'cuz it's just a capaiter, after all, but I wouldn't look to that (made entirely in Asia) brand for amps or speakers. What's causing the pop.... Could belots of things. First thing, put another known-to-be-good amp in there and see if it goes away. If so, it's the amp. If not, it's something else.

Before adding a capacitor or second battery, first step is ALWAYS upgrade the underhood wiring. The power wire from teh alt to the bat, and ESPECIALLY the battery main ground strap wire. For moderate systems, that's enough to solve minor dimming issues 7 or 8 out of 10 times.
__________________
Las Vegas Motor Speedway (2200 ft): 15.922 @ 86.70 MPH, stock '98 2.4 / 5 speed coupe with a K&N drop in filter and crappy tires (2.3 60's). Gone now....

R.I.P. 1993 Oldsmobile Achieva SCX W41, parted out.

2005 Pacific Blue Ion Redline, competition package, set up for SCCA Stock class, Koni Yellows/Hawk pads/Powergrid endlinks/245/40/17 BFG R1's for race day...
AmIGrand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2006, 08:45 PM   #77
Luken
GAGT - Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: brampton
Posts: 7
Vehicle: 2002 Grand Am Se
Luken Gettin' there
Just wondering, me and my friend have an 02 grand am SE, we have an xplod deck running some alphasonic speakers, 2 12" Clarions with a kicker ZR360(kicker 1200 i think) and ever since we started with the first amp( a ****ty xplod 444 watt) we keep running into problems. as posted before we've had the lights dimming(a Cap is installed, not doing anything most likely) and now recently the fuses keep blowing like theres no tommorow with the new kicker amp, mainly the Main fuse, the wiring is 4 guage everywhere, and everything thing is neat and clean, most things under the good are stock, Alt,Battery, Etc so their apart of the problem too. anyone have any suggestions to deal with this?

Last edited by Luken; 04-28-2006 at 08:58 PM.
Luken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2006, 09:08 PM   #78
Ajaxus
GAGT - Junkie
 
Ajaxus's Avatar
 
AKA: AJ
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Missoula, MT
Age: 31
Posts: 8,402
Vehicle: '01 Subaru Outback LTD
Ajaxus Gettin' there
can you give a list of all the specific fuses that are blowing? that might help alot more in diagnosing the problem.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by geldartb View Post
go make your own mcflurry you mcfagget
Quote:
Originally Posted by [ChaosweaveR] View Post
Why do you keep thinking I'm some right wing faggot?
Ajaxus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2006, 02:58 PM   #79
Luken
GAGT - Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: brampton
Posts: 7
Vehicle: 2002 Grand Am Se
Luken Gettin' there
its an 80 amp fuse thats on the power line between the battery and the amp, the one right at the battery,
the xplod deck is 4x52 watts,
the amp is a Zr360,
500watts by each sub.
4- guage wiring etc

this fuse keeps blowing everytime we start playing music or start to crank it, even when the amp is only on a quarter gain.
even with the capacitor(1.0QX) installed it doesnt seem to be doing anything.

Last edited by Luken; 04-29-2006 at 03:06 PM.
Luken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2006, 03:08 PM   #80
AmIGrand
Car Audio Guy
 
AmIGrand's Avatar
 
AKA: Jamin
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Vegas, Baby!
Age: 42
Posts: 993
Vehicle: '05 Ion Redline
AmIGrand Gettin' there
Send a message via Yahoo to AmIGrand
Sounds like either your power wire is pinched, or your amp is toasted. Could be the sub(s), but the amp should go into protect before popping the fuse. I'm betting a bad output in the amplifier.
__________________
Las Vegas Motor Speedway (2200 ft): 15.922 @ 86.70 MPH, stock '98 2.4 / 5 speed coupe with a K&N drop in filter and crappy tires (2.3 60's). Gone now....

R.I.P. 1993 Oldsmobile Achieva SCX W41, parted out.

2005 Pacific Blue Ion Redline, competition package, set up for SCCA Stock class, Koni Yellows/Hawk pads/Powergrid endlinks/245/40/17 BFG R1's for race day...
AmIGrand is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2011 GrandAmGT.com
RotorsOnline.com