GTO vs MACH1

[RAMAIRGT1]

Why does everyone compare their car to a mustang? Id personally take a cobra over a GTO anyday no matter what the interior looks like.

[Mike3800]

Originally Posted by ihatejmarquis

I hate to be a troller, but who gives a crap about which is faster...

*raises hand*

It does matter when it has a GTO label on it and it is supposed to be a high performance coupe.

Just like it matters how much towing and payload it is cappable of if it were a truck.

Most of us are dissapointed that GM isn't top dog anymore. Sure, the GTO is a very nice car. Luxury and speed. However, Cadillac is what competes with BMW and Lexus etc... not Pontiac. 35G isn't really that expensive for a luxury coupe and the GTO is not the same class of car as say an M3 etc.. So what really is it's competition? Mustang Mach1 and Cobra, the price range is the same.

A Mustang should be the same as an Escort whe comared to anything powered by that LS1 like it always has been. Crap... even a RWD Impala SS can take out a same year 5-speed GT Mustang. Not ragging on the car, like I said it is nice, but this is why some die hard GM fans are dissapointed.

[The Great One.]

[quote=Mike3800]*raises hand*


Most of us are dissapointed that GM isn't top dog anymore. QUOTE]


Thats not the GTO's fault... the F-car(4th gen) was faster than the mustang hands-down before the '03 cobra, but guess what, it didn't outsell the stang... nowhere near, and GM axed it (for now), again the new GTO wasn't even concieved when the descision to can the f-car was made.

so whats your reasoning now ? , why didn't more people buy f-bodies ? than mustangs, if power is the ultimate objective.

waits for new spin on the story...

[VTECSiGAH8R]

Originally Posted by Mike3800

*raises hand*

It does matter when it has a GTO label on it and it is supposed to be a high performance coupe.

Just like it matters how much towing and payload it is cappable of if it were a truck.

Most of us are dissapointed that GM isn't top dog anymore. Sure, the GTO is a very nice car. Luxury and speed. However, Cadillac is what competes with BMW and Lexus etc... not Pontiac. 35G isn't really that expensive for a luxury coupe and the GTO is not the same class of car as say an M3 etc.. So what really is it's competition? Mustang Mach1 and Cobra, the price range is the same.

A Mustang should be the same as an Escort whe comared to anything powered by that LS1 like it always has been. Crap... even a RWD Impala SS can take out a same year 5-speed GT Mustang. Not ragging on the car, like I said it is nice, but this is why some die hard GM fans are dissapointed.

Those people are entitled to their opinion, but the numbers speak for themselves. If you can drive the car, it will reward you, that simple. And people are learning how to drive the GTO and they are ripping off low 13 sec slips. And this car wouldn't be competition for the G35, but the 350Z is comparable. In many ways the GTO simply outclasses the 350Z, and the price is nearly the same, unless you are willing to accept the stupid dealer add on costs. Then again, the 350Z had similar issues when it was released.

[95-GT]

What with dealer ripoffs? I always hear about them, but my local Ford dealership doesnt do that ****. I have not once seen a 03 or 04 Cobra over $34,000, and thats even the mystic colored anniversary edition.

[Mike3800]

Originally Posted by VTECSiGAH8R

Those people are entitled to their opinion, but the numbers speak for themselves. If you can drive the car, it will reward you, that simple. And people are learning how to drive the GTO and they are ripping off low 13 sec slips. And this car wouldn't be competition for the G35, but the 350Z is comparable. In many ways the GTO simply outclasses the 350Z, and the price is nearly the same, unless you are willing to accept the stupid dealer add on costs. Then again, the 350Z had similar issues when it was released.

350Z costs about 10 grand less, I have actually seen them go for 27 grand around here with no dealer markup. GTO's are still marked up in my neck of the woods. I think the GTO really is either in a nitche class (like the Eclipse/Talon used to be), or it is with the Mustangs. No other RWD V8 cars I know of in that price range.

About outclassing the 350Z... I can't agree with that. I can say it out performs the Z in a straight line. I can say they are in the same class. The Z has always been in the same class as Corvette, but now it has been outclassed by the Corvette.

Also I think if Nissan turbo's the Z or has a model with turbo like they have in past years... again it will be in the same category as the Corvette like it has always been up untill now.

[VTECSiGAH8R]

Originally Posted by Mike3800

350Z costs about 10 grand less, I have actually seen them go for 27 grand around here with no dealer markup. GTO's are still marked up in my neck of the woods. I think the GTO really is either in a nitche class (like the Eclipse/Talon used to be), or it is with the Mustangs. No other RWD V8 cars I know of in that price range.

About outclassing the 350Z... I can't agree with that. I can say it out performs the Z in a straight line. I can say they are in the same class. The Z has always been in the same class as Corvette, but now it has been outclassed by the Corvette.

Also I think if Nissan turbo's the Z or has a model with turbo like they have in past years... again it will be in the same category as the Corvette like it has always been up untill now.

No the old $40,000 Z was almost in the same class as the Corvette. The 350Z is nowhere near the class of the current C5 or the C6, but it is at a great price. However, with options 350Z go well over $30,000, they have less power, less potential power, less room, they are slower. But they do handle better and are better cars. And yeah the GTO is kinda nitche, but if it were to compare to anything it'd be the 350Z or the Mustang. I think it's nice because it combines the classiness of the 350 with power/speed of a Mach 1, and is really more practical for families to use and for people to take friends/coworkers around in. I think it does nicely what it is suppose to do. As for the price, like I said, 350s got marked up when they first got here too. Cobra never really got marked up too much, and being in Michigan might just help you out a smidge. But yeah they go for $34,000 at least in most areas from what I've heard, but it depends on where you are as with anything. You'd be paying a good $40,000 in Cali for a hardtop Cobra, get a vert and tach 5 grand onto that I'd imagine.

[Panacea]

Yup, fully loaded a 350z will be around $33-36K

As far as performance, a 2000 WS6 did the 1/4 in approx. 13.5 seconds. The GTO is pretty comparable if you ask me. But even if it were to be .2-.5 off of a WS6 it'll still tear it apart in the twisties and the build quality.

And as far as the argument of a Neon putting a GTO to shame. Cry me a river. The Neon weights a hell of a lot less. It's just a stupid comparison just for arguments sake because there was nothing else to argue about except a smaller car being fast. It's pretty sad. What are we going to say next, you can get a bike for $5,000 and be in the 10's. Man, the GTO sucks, it can't even touch that. I mean with the money you saved you could build this bike to be a -2 second car.... WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEe

This will go on and on. Some people can't learn to stop their whining and give up. Some people like it, some don't. Leave it at that. This is getting sad!

[Mike3800]

Originally Posted by VTECSiGAH8R

No the old $40,000 Z was almost in the same class as the Corvette.

It was a big compeditor to the Corvette. It was in exactly the same class, just like a Ford F150 vs. Chevy Silverado. SAME catagory/class. As to what one was "better" is pure opinon. I like the Vette better. Z was always 2nd favorite.

Originally Posted by VTECSiGAH8R

The 350Z is nowhere near the class of the current C5 or the C6,

I agree, that's exactly what I said. Most people don't realize how the even just the C5 is built. But watch out if Nissan twin turbo's that 3.5 in the Z. I would bet $$ they'll do it.


Anyway... my bad going off topic...

Um... yeah... the Mach 1 vs. GTO... pretty evenly matched in the 1/4.

not to but in, but hsv is the performance line...not the base car. and i remember gm was gonna use the same 302 hp numver as in the base monaro and said it wasnt enough, then up'd to 340 and then to 350. i think the hsv treatment to the GTO would put it at 400 too...im not arguing, but hsv monaro and the gto isnt the same...

straight from holdens on the monaro page:
"Generation III V8

245kW of power, 465Nm of torque.
Aluminium alloy construction creates light weight engine for:
Smooth ride. Lower weight allows softer, more supple front suspension.
Agile handling. Less weight in front end allows more precise steering response.
One piece induction system made from composite materials for smoother air flow and superior 'breathing'.
Inlet manifold has improved air flow for performance and fuel economy."

so i guess the gto is between the base and the hsv version of the monaro...

[monaroCountry]

The gto has got an excellent everyday handling characteristics. Although the GTO doesnt really have excellent tire grip (smallish 245) it does have a pretty good mechnical grip. Theres been a comparison of a holden gto and a z here in aust. Surprisingly the gto was easier and better around the track and twisties. They explained that the z wasnt able to absorb the bumps as effectively as the gto, as a result was harder to control and tends to get out of shape easier, the z also was less predictable and snaps when ove the limit.

[VTECSiGAH8R]

Originally Posted by monaroCountry

The gto has got an excellent everyday handling characteristics. Although the GTO doesnt really have excellent tire grip (smallish 245) it does have a pretty good mechnical grip. Theres been a comparison of a holden gto and a z here in aust. Surprisingly the gto was easier and better around the track and twisties. They explained that the z wasnt able to absorb the bumps as effectively as the gto, as a result was harder to control and tends to get out of shape easier, the z also was less predictable and snaps when ove the limit.

Yeah the GTO is more of a smooth car I'd imagine, and the 350 is more of a driver's car like a Vette. I read that the reason for the heavy weight was actually because in Australia the roads are not as good as here typically, so they beefed up the suspension with reinforced steel and high quality components, which also translates into a smooth ride but with good handling characteristics.

[ArcticGT]

I remember the article in the Pontiac Magazine comparing the two and the funny thing is the magazine gave the Mach 1 a pretty good review. Which was rightfully so. The test pointed out only a 0.1 difference in the cars runs with the GTO just inching the Mach 1 out. The only problem was the GTO had to have the engine iced down between runs where the Mach 1 just kepted lupping around to the tree with no maintence whatsoever.

When the new Mustang GT appears later this year, I think GTOs owner should be aware that they are no longer running a 2 valve engine. The new GTs will have the 3 valve 300 horsepowered engine the Mach 1's have been running the last two years. I think Ford is actually going in the right direction, GM in my eyes is slipping a little bit in terms of car enthusists concerns. The european looks of the GTO has nothing to do with American Muscle Cars period.

[95-GT]

Originally Posted by ArcticGT

The new GTs will have the 3 valve 300 horsepowered engine the Mach 1's have been running the last two years.

Uhh, the Mach 1's have been running the 2001 Cobra motor (few differances), 32 Valve DOHC, not a 24 valve motor.

[ArcticGT]

Originally Posted by 95-GT

Uhh, the Mach 1's have been running the 2001 Cobra motor (few differances), 32 Valve DOHC, not a 24 valve motor.

I thought they were three valves, ummm. Either way the new GT is a three valve with 300HP.

[ZakkWylde470]

The engine in the Mach 1 (although it is a 32 Valve DOHC 4.6L V8) is NOT the 2001 Cobra motor.

[95-GT]

Read what I said. There are the differances, but its basiclly the 32V DOHC motor.

[ZakkWylde470]

Gotcha, I didn't notice that part in the paranthesis when I read it.

[95-GT]

Ya. I didnt mean to sound like a **** either when I said read what i said. Sorry if it came off like that. But I know the intake is differant, differant fuel system and what not.

[Vintalage]

GTO...no
Monaro...yes

They should have retained the name monaro and offer more engine choices. The monaro is cooler. The stripped down GTO (base monaro) is not.

I do like the way it looks, however.