62 mm TB's - Page 7

FORTEEN3GT · 09-30-2004, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FORTEEN3GT

hey... if you did provide an SC with great results better quality than rsm at a better price.. !

you still didnt answer the question ty!

phantom505 · 09-30-2004, 06:37 PM

This is a bit off topic..... however I can, to some extent, speak on this.

He has my turbo which we are improving and redeveloped more or less from the ground up right now. We are improving the computer, the exhaust side, the intake side, pretty much everything. He has his hands full on a boost project for the GA already.

However, he has one person that is interested in California. Right now unless someone throws a major chunk of change on the table, it will be slow, and it won't start until sometime next year at the earliest assuming nobody puts the money on the table. And that is iffy because that person may change his mind by then. So we are back to what I have said in the past. Don't expect someone to just drop a wad of cash on a project that pales in comparison with what is already in the works. Everyone knows I'm biased toward turbos. Mostly because SC's are no more reliable, don't make any more power, and will cost more to develop as well as maintain. The only real advantage is it's easier to get emissions testing in CA done on a SC (becuase they have a MUCH higher loss vs turbos).

FORTEEN3GT · 09-30-2004, 08:42 PM

so i guess we are really waiting on ZZP to help with this?? different thread ...different topic.

thanks for you input...

IMO ...............................

SC > Turbo, when intercooled! Procharger is #1 in my books after the Kenne Bell and Whipple's.

phantom505 · 09-30-2004, 09:49 PM

I guess so. And I'll bet you money right now ZZP probably won't get around to it any faster. Simply because nobody wants to put money on the project. Simple as that.

And your reasoning for SC are better than turbos comes from antiquated arguements over them having more torque. My numbers are evidence that until a cam is done (which I think will require me to do it of course...) SC's on the stock 3400 simply will never have the torque that the turbo can produce.

And just a side note.... Borg-Warner makes a better centrifuge type SC than Procharger... which by the way, Borg-Warner's main business is turbos. What does that tell you? A centrifuge is nothing but a turbo on a stick.

FORTEEN3GT · 10-01-2004, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phantom505

And your reasoning for SC are better than turbos comes from antiquated arguements over them having more torque. My numbers are evidence that until a cam is done (which I think will require me to do it of course...) SC's on the stock 3400 simply will never have the torque that the turbo can produce.

what about john (aleroboy)....his setup was running the same HP and torque numbers as you at a lower level of boost? IIRC

not doggin your setup.....i just like SC's more.

to each his own...i dont think there is anything wrong with your turbo....except i have heard it was too small for 400 plus horses....just like the m62 is too small for 400 horses........ all you guys with deep pockets for this stuff need to start thinking bigger

once the tranny problem is fixed!!

phantom505 · 10-01-2004, 01:32 PM

I don't think so. For one thing I had NO extras on the intake side. The two items I had a FFP UD pulley and a Borla catback... that's it everything else was stock. He had a liquid to air IC, tons of bolt ons, and I'm pretty sure he had 11 psi of boost. Not to mention he had corrected numbers, which are in my experience are almost always too generous by about 5%. And even so I still had much more torque.

Pat's is the only car that I have seen yet to dyno anything near me. And he had extensive engine mods. Only problem is that he doesn't have a tranny to hold it all. He doesn't have torque numbers, so I can't compare. But I can almost assure you that my broad flat curve of 4200 RPM to 6000 RPM will not be emulated with the stock cam on a SC.

Kit for kit... turbo simply stomps. If you want to get headers, TB's, UIM, LIM, and so on, then yeah, I guess the SC could be sorta competitive. Just make sure you have spare tensioners around.

And now that I have all the bolt ons.... I'm curious to see what happens. And I won't have the sick heads on there, just mild port ones.

FORTEEN3GT · 10-01-2004, 01:37 PM

do you think your turbo is large enough for 400-500 horses??

phantom505 · 10-01-2004, 01:39 PM

I know it's big enough. It will support 450 HP at the crank. Which is about 350 wHP or a little more. And if it's not, then there is an easy answer... move a step up on the compressor side. My compressor right now is sorta small. It can go up pretty easily. I don't even need to change the housing.

Schweppe23 · 10-01-2004, 05:29 PM

Way

Tom we're trying to plan an east coast/midwest meet at Norwalk/Cedar Point, i don't know how far that is from you but if your cars together by then you should try and make it. Test and Tune is on Friday and then Saturday were going to CedarPoint. I think its 22-24, theres a thread in the ec section on it.

phantom505 · 10-01-2004, 07:13 PM

We'll see... they STILL owe me parts. I'm starting to get ****ed.

Anyway, did you do a custom cam on your car?

Schweppe23 · 10-02-2004, 07:46 PM

Yeah, Crower was supposed to do my cam, but then said they couldn't do the #s that Ross Racing wanted to go with so then Cam Motion was sought out. From everyone i've talked to, they agree that Cam Motion does good work. I'm completely happy with mine.

Knappy1 · 10-02-2004, 08:35 PM

Did they just do a regrind, or a completely custom cam?

speedyguy · 10-20-2004, 10:32 PM

The 65mm core units are being milled tomorrow. Other than residual parts it is all ready the 65mm billet throttle body is a reality. There are many options I will go into with pictures. Very cool unit. Phantom will have the first unit.

How important is the brass throttle body plate to most?

Ty

Sprucegagt · 11-11-2004, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedyguy

The 65mm core units are being milled tomorrow. Other than residual parts it is all ready the 65mm billet throttle body is a reality. There are many options I will go into with pictures. Very cool unit. Phantom will have the first unit.

How important is the brass throttle body plate to most?

Ty

Is there an ETA as to when this will be available for purchase? I checked the domesticperformance.com website today and it is not listed there.

speedyguy · 11-11-2004, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprucegagt

Is there an ETA as to when this will be available for purchase? I checked the domesticperformance.com website today and it is not listed there.

Grrrr a point of contention for me.

This was my last e-mail from the machine shop

THROTTLE BODY DELAYED- MACH COMPUTER BATTERY-DEAD- LOST SOME MACH POSITION
MACH REPAIRED- SETUP & RUN ON FRIDAY-

That is tomorrow and it is probably going to be done Monday if they are true to there word.

Taken way to long and of course the cost went up with further mods and R&D.

The cost to the public will be reasonable. I will also have the option of anodizing the product even with fading or smoking effects if you are interested. The anodizing effect will show up on our hemi intakes in a few days.

Soon as there done we will post an add on this forum and then you can be sure we are done.

p.s this throttle body blows away the "other" styles seen on both 3.4l and 3.8l cars. We are now working on a larger drive by wire unit for the 3.5/3.9l

Sorry to make this car fast you need alot more than a CSC.

My opinion is that unless this car can reach the mid 9's then it’s a waist of time and this is the reason I am on this car. I believe the 3.4 and the 3.5 in the G6 will power the car enough to get it in the 9’s once properly reworked.

Ty

Sprucegagt · 11-12-2004, 07:07 AM

This sounds like it will be a very nice piece when complete. To bad you don't have at least one right now for me to take off your hands.

Schweppe23 · 11-14-2004, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedyguy

p.s this throttle body blows away the "other" styles seen on both 3.4l and 3.8l cars. Ty

how so?

AMRAAM4 · 11-14-2004, 04:18 PM

FOXNEWS ALERT!

buying a larger throttle body, for the most part, is useless!

tejohnson · 11-14-2004, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMRAAM4

FOXNEWS ALERT!

buying a larger throttle body, for the most part, is useless!

I'm sorry, could you explain why? Are you referring to "buying a larger throttle body only, and making no other modifications, for the most part is useless"

Under what conditions do you know it is not useless?

AMRAAM4 · 11-14-2004, 06:21 PM

Only time it is not useless is when you have A LOT of engine work. Other than that, please feel free to send AMRAAM your $200+ dollars.

P.S. My father's line at work makes the GM TB's

09-30-2004, 06:37 PM	#122
phantom505 GAGTurbo Owner Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Heltonville, IN Age: 41 Posts: 1,576 Vehicle: '02 GAGT	This is a bit off topic..... however I can, to some extent, speak on this. He has my turbo which we are improving and redeveloped more or less from the ground up right now. We are improving the computer, the exhaust side, the intake side, pretty much everything. He has his hands full on a boost project for the GA already. However, he has one person that is interested in California. Right now unless someone throws a major chunk of change on the table, it will be slow, and it won't start until sometime next year at the earliest assuming nobody puts the money on the table. And that is iffy because that person may change his mind by then. So we are back to what I have said in the past. Don't expect someone to just drop a wad of cash on a project that pales in comparison with what is already in the works. Everyone knows I'm biased toward turbos. Mostly because SC's are no more reliable, don't make any more power, and will cost more to develop as well as maintain. The only real advantage is it's easier to get emissions testing in CA done on a SC (becuase they have a MUCH higher loss vs turbos). __________________ It's ugly, and turbocharged! 264 HP and 284 ft/lbs at the wheels(@9psi), power curve like none other! And the transaxle to make it all work! Last edited by phantom505; 09-30-2004 at 06:41 PM.

09-30-2004, 08:42 PM	#123
FORTEEN3GT Texas's fastest GAGT AKA: Mike Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: by Dallas, Texas Age: 40 Posts: 1,871 Vehicle: 2001 GTP; 2000 WS6	so i guess we are really waiting on ZZP to help with this?? different thread ...different topic. thanks for you input... IMO ............................... SC > Turbo, when intercooled! Procharger is #1 in my books after the Kenne Bell and Whipple's. __________________ 9.42 1/8th Mile ET All-Motor! SOLD MODDED 1999 GAGT 2000 TRANS-AM WS6 M6 converted to TH400: 408, LS3 Heads,, True Duals, MTI Lid, Moser 9" rearend, Gemini 300 plate kit (800+rwhp of fun! 2001 GTP: PCM, 3.2 Pulley, VS Cam, 3 inch Downpipe/Exhaust, PEMs, U-bend, No-Cat, SLP Intake, and PowerTuner

09-30-2004, 09:49 PM	#124
phantom505 GAGTurbo Owner Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Heltonville, IN Age: 41 Posts: 1,576 Vehicle: '02 GAGT	I guess so. And I'll bet you money right now ZZP probably won't get around to it any faster. Simply because nobody wants to put money on the project. Simple as that. And your reasoning for SC are better than turbos comes from antiquated arguements over them having more torque. My numbers are evidence that until a cam is done (which I think will require me to do it of course...) SC's on the stock 3400 simply will never have the torque that the turbo can produce. And just a side note.... Borg-Warner makes a better centrifuge type SC than Procharger... which by the way, Borg-Warner's main business is turbos. What does that tell you? A centrifuge is nothing but a turbo on a stick. __________________ It's ugly, and turbocharged! 264 HP and 284 ft/lbs at the wheels(@9psi), power curve like none other! And the transaxle to make it all work! Last edited by phantom505; 09-30-2004 at 09:52 PM.

10-01-2004, 01:32 PM	#126
phantom505 GAGTurbo Owner Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Heltonville, IN Age: 41 Posts: 1,576 Vehicle: '02 GAGT	I don't think so. For one thing I had NO extras on the intake side. The two items I had a FFP UD pulley and a Borla catback... that's it everything else was stock. He had a liquid to air IC, tons of bolt ons, and I'm pretty sure he had 11 psi of boost. Not to mention he had corrected numbers, which are in my experience are almost always too generous by about 5%. And even so I still had much more torque. Pat's is the only car that I have seen yet to dyno anything near me. And he had extensive engine mods. Only problem is that he doesn't have a tranny to hold it all. He doesn't have torque numbers, so I can't compare. But I can almost assure you that my broad flat curve of 4200 RPM to 6000 RPM will not be emulated with the stock cam on a SC. Kit for kit... turbo simply stomps. If you want to get headers, TB's, UIM, LIM, and so on, then yeah, I guess the SC could be sorta competitive. Just make sure you have spare tensioners around. And now that I have all the bolt ons.... I'm curious to see what happens. And I won't have the sick heads on there, just mild port ones. __________________ It's ugly, and turbocharged! 264 HP and 284 ft/lbs at the wheels(@9psi), power curve like none other! And the transaxle to make it all work!

10-01-2004, 01:37 PM	#127
FORTEEN3GT Texas's fastest GAGT AKA: Mike Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: by Dallas, Texas Age: 40 Posts: 1,871 Vehicle: 2001 GTP; 2000 WS6	do you think your turbo is large enough for 400-500 horses?? __________________ 9.42 1/8th Mile ET All-Motor! SOLD MODDED 1999 GAGT 2000 TRANS-AM WS6 M6 converted to TH400: 408, LS3 Heads,, True Duals, MTI Lid, Moser 9" rearend, Gemini 300 plate kit (800+rwhp of fun! 2001 GTP: PCM, 3.2 Pulley, VS Cam, 3 inch Downpipe/Exhaust, PEMs, U-bend, No-Cat, SLP Intake, and PowerTuner

10-01-2004, 01:39 PM	#128
phantom505 GAGTurbo Owner Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Heltonville, IN Age: 41 Posts: 1,576 Vehicle: '02 GAGT	I know it's big enough. It will support 450 HP at the crank. Which is about 350 wHP or a little more. And if it's not, then there is an easy answer... move a step up on the compressor side. My compressor right now is sorta small. It can go up pretty easily. I don't even need to change the housing. __________________ It's ugly, and turbocharged! 264 HP and 284 ft/lbs at the wheels(@9psi), power curve like none other! And the transaxle to make it all work! Last edited by phantom505; 10-01-2004 at 02:38 PM. Reason: dang spell checker...

10-01-2004, 05:29 PM	#129
Schweppe23 GAGT - Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ohio Age: 41 Posts: 1,549 Vehicle: Pontiac	Way Tom we're trying to plan an east coast/midwest meet at Norwalk/Cedar Point, i don't know how far that is from you but if your cars together by then you should try and make it. Test and Tune is on Friday and then Saturday were going to CedarPoint. I think its 22-24, theres a thread in the ec section on it. __________________ First 99+ GAGT to run 14s First E/M (only) GA to run 13s First turbo'D GAGT to run 12s 11's coming soon

10-01-2004, 07:13 PM	#130
phantom505 GAGTurbo Owner Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Heltonville, IN Age: 41 Posts: 1,576 Vehicle: '02 GAGT	We'll see... they STILL owe me parts. I'm starting to get ****ed. Anyway, did you do a custom cam on your car? __________________ It's ugly, and turbocharged! 264 HP and 284 ft/lbs at the wheels(@9psi), power curve like none other! And the transaxle to make it all work!

10-02-2004, 07:46 PM	#131
Schweppe23 GAGT - Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ohio Age: 41 Posts: 1,549 Vehicle: Pontiac	Yeah, Crower was supposed to do my cam, but then said they couldn't do the #s that Ross Racing wanted to go with so then Cam Motion was sought out. From everyone i've talked to, they agree that Cam Motion does good work. I'm completely happy with mine. __________________ First 99+ GAGT to run 14s First E/M (only) GA to run 13s First turbo'D GAGT to run 12s 11's coming soon

10-02-2004, 08:35 PM	#132
Knappy1 V6ONPSI Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 373 Vehicle: 2002 SC GT1	Did they just do a regrind, or a completely custom cam? __________________ My Supercharged 02 Fast and Sexy...what more could you ask for?

10-20-2004, 10:32 PM	#133
speedyguy GAGT - Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Califoronia Posts: 88 Vehicle: 99 Grand Am	The 65mm core units are being milled tomorrow. Other than residual parts it is all ready the 65mm billet throttle body is a reality. There are many options I will go into with pictures. Very cool unit. Phantom will have the first unit. How important is the brass throttle body plate to most? Ty

11-12-2004, 07:07 AM	#136
Sprucegagt Schwartz Power! AKA: Andy Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ranson, WV Age: 46 Posts: 2,027 Vehicle: 2000 Grand Am GT	This sounds like it will be a very nice piece when complete. To bad you don't have at least one right now for me to take off your hands. __________________ 2000 Grand Am GT (some day it will be SC/T) Mods: alot

11-14-2004, 04:18 PM	#138
AMRAAM4 Wiley 'Ol Veteran AKA: Bob (aka Hoss) Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Azerbaijan Age: 45 Posts: 6,935 Vehicle: See My Signature Block	FOXNEWS ALERT! buying a larger throttle body, for the most part, is useless! __________________ 2016 GoMango Challenger SRT Hellcat 2014 Redline Pearl Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT 2018 Bruiser Grey Dodge Durango SRT TRADED-2004 Black Grand Am GT,2004 Impulse Blue GTO M6, 2012 Mineral Gray Jeep SRT8, 2010 Bright Silver Jeep SRT8 LEASE TURN-IN-2006 Summit White TrailBlazer SS AWD (Vector CAI & tune) SOLD-2000 Silvermist Grand Am GT Supercharged,1994 Daytona Blue Single Turbo RX7 (427whp/330wtq), 2006 Spice Red GTO A4, 2013 Grabber Blue Shelby GT500

11-14-2004, 06:21 PM	#140
AMRAAM4 Wiley 'Ol Veteran AKA: Bob (aka Hoss) Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Azerbaijan Age: 45 Posts: 6,935 Vehicle: See My Signature Block	Only time it is not useless is when you have A LOT of engine work. Other than that, please feel free to send AMRAAM your $200+ dollars. P.S. My father's line at work makes the GM TB's __________________ 2016 GoMango Challenger SRT Hellcat 2014 Redline Pearl Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT 2018 Bruiser Grey Dodge Durango SRT TRADED-2004 Black Grand Am GT,2004 Impulse Blue GTO M6, 2012 Mineral Gray Jeep SRT8, 2010 Bright Silver Jeep SRT8 LEASE TURN-IN-2006 Summit White TrailBlazer SS AWD (Vector CAI & tune) SOLD-2000 Silvermist Grand Am GT Supercharged,1994 Daytona Blue Single Turbo RX7 (427whp/330wtq), 2006 Spice Red GTO A4, 2013 Grabber Blue Shelby GT500