Initial sales of GTO not meeting expectations

[AMRAAM4]

I'm beginning to like the color red the best. However, at Auto Show in Motion they were handing out the biggest crock of crap on this car. They had a dyno set up and a red GTO strapped to it. Every half hour they would do a speal about the car and run one dyno run to show the spectators. Well, the guy who was doing the speal was an idiot to begin with (I heard him talking to someone about the G6 and he was oblivious ) Anyway, the computer he had it hooked up to provided a HP read out and an estimated 1/4 mile. What it was turning out to be and what they were telling onlookers...

1/4 of 13.19
HP dyno of 315 at the wheels

[crazypontiac03]

I guess thats what happen when you take a car from austraila and try to make it a all american car, and keep the looks and everything the same. They need to change it quick before it goes up in smoke. I saw my second GTO they took it out for a test drive at my local dealer, needles to say they didnt buy it. Saw a blue on the road though.

[VTECSiGAH8R]

Originally Posted by AMRAAM4

I'm beginning to like the color red the best. However, at Auto Show in Motion they were handing out the biggest crock of crap on this car. They had a dyno set up and a red GTO strapped to it. Every half hour they would do a speal about the car and run one dyno run to show the spectators. Well, the guy who was doing the speal was an idiot to begin with (I heard him talking to someone about the G6 and he was oblivious ) Anyway, the computer he had it hooked up to provided a HP read out and an estimated 1/4 mile. What it was turning out to be and what they were telling onlookers...

1/4 of 13.19
HP dyno of 315 at the wheels

Those hp numbers are about correct for an LS1. Most LS1s dyno no less than 310 hp since they were introduced in Camaros. They dyno a little more (maybe 5-10 more hp) in the Vettes due to intake design I think and I guess GTOs are similar.

As for the 1/4 mile, that is an estimation capability of Mustang Dynos, and they aren't that accurate since cars get a little thing known as "drag" *sarcasm* when going down the track. In any case, the GTO is capable of low 13s in real world. I believe I read some guys on newagegto.com got like 13.10 after removing the spare, and 13.3 was the best for completely stock. The main problem with the car in the 1/4 is the IRS. Ask Supra and Cobra owners about this and they'll agree. The IRS is such a bitch to launch with. After practice most problems can be overcome, but a solid rear suspension is preferred.

[AMRAAM4]

yeah, but 315 is only 10% drivetrain loss.

Originally Posted by AMRAAM4

yeah, but 315 is only 10% drivetrain loss.

assuming that the crank hp is really 350...

[VTECSiGAH8R]

Originally Posted by AMRAAM4

yeah, but 315 is only 10% drivetrain loss.

I don't know what to say, LS1s have been dynoing around 310 hp +/- 10 hp for years.

You also have to realize that dynos can be a little off in their numbers, depending on the brand of dyno, and the SAE corrected number is always smaller by a few hp.

[VTECSiGAH8R]

Here's some pics of one dyno:

Actual hp:
http://www.xse.com/leres/ss/images/d...eb00-a-sm.html

SAE corrected:
http://www.xse.com/leres/ss/images/d...eb00-c-sm.html

A completely stock LS1 in a Camaro SS.

The SAE conversion factor is based on this BTW:

atmospheric pressure 29.23, air temperature 77 degrees Fahrenheit and humidity 0 percent--to all tests

Obviously this guy had more favorable conditions, getting 320 whp. Must have been cold outside.

[fo44rd]

Originally Posted by crazypontiac03

I guess thats what happen when you take a car from austraila and try to make it a all american car, and keep the looks and everything the same. They need to change it quick before it goes up in smoke.

If this is Lutz's best effort.......he has lost his touch.

[AMRAAM4]

Originally Posted by VTECSiGAH8R

I don't know what to say, LS1s have been dynoing around 310 hp +/- 10 hp for years.

You also have to realize that dynos can be a little off in their numbers, depending on the brand of dyno, and the SAE corrected number is always smaller by a few hp.

Been doing some reading. Most Stock GTOs are dynoing 282whp/293wtq. So looks like I was right in calling BS on that dyno at Auto-Show In Motion.


GTO now has financing available. 0.9/36mths - 1.9/48mths - 2.9/60mths

[Vintalage]

Too bad. I saw a yellow one yesterday. Looked pretty good. Has a more solid, upscale appearance than the other Pontiac offerings.

[crazypontiac03]

Now they have financing, on the GTO to bad there still not going to sell many.

[VTECSiGAH8R]

Originally Posted by AMRAAM4

Been doing some reading. Most Stock GTOs are dynoing 282whp/293wtq. So looks like I was right in calling BS on that dyno at Auto-Show In Motion.


GTO now has financing available. 0.9/36mths - 1.9/48mths - 2.9/60mths

Are you talking about the Holdens tho? Because the GTOs here are slightly different w/ a higher hp rating. I have a dyno of 305 whp from www.newagegto.com here after 900 miles, and I believe a lot of LS1 owners claim their engines start producing more power after they get used a bit.



It uses the Corvette's higher lift cam to achieve more power than the Holden Monaro.

[AMRAAM4]

Nope, norm I see is about what I posted..give or take a few HP here or there. I'd say that Dyno graph is from a GTO w/ exhaust. Supposedly a new catback will give around 25-30 extra horses.

[VTECSiGAH8R]

Originally Posted by AMRAAM4

Nope, norm I see is about what I posted..give or take a few HP here or there. I'd say that Dyno graph is from a GTO w/ exhaust. Supposedly a new catback will give around 25-30 extra horses.

No that's a stocker, "all the way down to the paper filter."

Here's another, lower but not as low as 280 rwhp, more around 300 rwhp:



You sure these people got SAE corrected dynos when their engines weren't already overly hot or something? There are a lot of factors to add in and if the dynos were done at high elevation without being SAE corrected, they are going to be significantly lower than the standard comparison.

Originally Posted by redgtsamurai

Still haven't seen another GTO on the road in Los Angeles but I do know there are three others out there. I still get positive comments daily while driving back and forth to work not to mention the stares.

Had to spank a Jetta hard yesterday and again today. Guess he just loved the punishment. Spanked him yesterday and saw him again today on the way home. He wanted more so I gave it to him. He just needs to learn when he's been beaten.

I can see the look on the poor guys face. "Man, thats one fast Cavalier!"

The GTO sales are good enough for LPE to work their on it.
http://www.lingenfelter.com/performancegto_tuner.asp

[fo44rd]

Originally Posted by crazypontiac03

Now they have financing, on the GTO to bad there still not going to sell many.

Until they get jammed up with 18,000 units commited to the U.S. (north american) market. They will load it with cash back to move the metal. I think they can slap $5,000 cash back on them and still make money on the car.

Any thoughts or input on how much g.m. makes per unit without any incentives on the car?

[AMRAAM4]

2004 GTO, auto, Black/Red, 12.505 @ 109.54 w/ 1.792 60' /// 393rwhp, 389tq: 3/4 LT headers, ceramic coated, 4" induction, high flow cats and race pipes, Borla 2.5" exhaust, CNC ported 6.0 heads (59cc w/ new valve train and springs), custom lunati cam, ported TB, 170 thermostat, custom length push rods, ATI dampener/underdrive pulley, 2800 stall ProTorque TC, tuned, rev limit raised to 6800rpm.

All that work, plus teh guy had DRs, and he was thrilled with a 12.55 @109mph. Uhmm, maybe I expect to much, but that doesn't seem so wonderful for soem reason.

hopefully the ls2 will run around that stock.

[95-GT]

LMFAO!!!!! Bob, I saw that on LS1GTO.com yesterday and I thought to myself "WTF, why is he so happy with a 12.55 with all that work done?" Do all that to a Vette, WS6, or a SS and you will easilly see mid 11's.