3x00 cams

[FORTEEN3GT]

Originally Posted by FORTEEN3GT

for right now it really only should say 2003! thanks to this trigger / sensor mismatch issue!

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

Yeah, I don't know how you can say the cam/trigger issue won't be fixed this year.

Even if milzy didn't get a fix for it soon (which I doubt will happen), you can still fix it with a computer tune.

Anyway this is all off topic.

posted in another thread.....



let's start placing bets......

i assume the easiest solution would have been to do a 99, 00-02, & cam blank with the 3 different triggers. for those that put a cam in.... wont you have to pull the engine again to fix the problem?

[AaronGTR]

Originally Posted by FORTEEN3GT

posted in another thread.....



let's start placing bets......

i assume the easiest solution would have been to do a 99, 00-02, & cam blank with the 3 different triggers. for those that put a cam in.... wont you have to pull the engine again to fix the problem?

Dude, whats your problem? You have NO clue what you're talking about. They don't need to make a cam with three different triggers, and we won't have to take our cams out that are already installed. All you need to do is use an '03+ cam sensor and harness plug, switch the position of two wires on the harness while you're installing the new plug, and re-program the pcm with an 03+ engine program so that it reads the cam signal correctly. OR, you can just wait for milzy to get the cam sensor adaptor he's having made by caspers electronics, which shouldn't be any problem for them.

[tejohnson]

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

All you need to do is use an '03+ cam sensor and harness plug, switch the position of two wires on the harness while you're installing the new plug, and re-program the pcm with an 03+ engine program so that it reads the cam signal correctly. OR, you can just wait for milzy to get the cam sensor adaptor he's having made by caspers electronics, which shouldn't be any problem for them.

Using a 03+ calibration may present it's own issues. I have found some interesting differences between the '99 and '01. Mainly as it relates to the transmission. This may not be the "Easiest" route by any means.

[FORTEEN3GT]

call me a pessimist if you will....... i am sure that the solution is not going to be this simple. I would assume there are other differences in the 03 and 99 PCM other than the cam sensor.......... can someone verify this for us? Brad??

where is the cam sensor located onthe block?? what about the harness......... when you said I have NO clue......... you are right..... I don't know where it is located.

[Sprucegagt]

Originally Posted by Sprucegagt

Why doesn't anyone just take an oscilloscope and compare the plots between each sensor? All the talk right now of how the computer will recognize each sensor is useless unless you know what the computer is reading. Instead everyone is basing there reasoning strictly off of the different cam profiles.

Reprogramming the computer may not be necessary if the sensor signals are similar. Instead just a simple jumper would be needed to convert the pre 03 models to the new sensor.

I have an oscilloscope here at work and would be glad to take the plot readings if donor cars were available.

Repeated again since people are talking about reprogramming the computer yet don't know jack sh!t about what signal the cam sensor is putting to the computer.

I would be very surprised if there is much of a difference electronically between each of the sensor revisions.

[bszopi]

I've decided to just stay out of it for now and let them figure it all out on their own. I've already provided (IMO) too much information for something that I am not directly involved in to any extent.

I fully agree that someone needs to scope the signal. I know for a fact that the 00-02 sensor works with a 94 PCM considering I am running an 01 3400 off of my 94 PCM and I never changed the cam sensor. I can scope mine and compare the signal to what I have from GM for a 94 signal. But that won't mean anything unless a 03+ is scoped since it's the design being used.

But as stated, I'm just going to sit back and watch from now on...

[xonelith]

Originally Posted by bszopi

I've decided to just stay out of it for now and let them figure it all out on their own. I've already provided (IMO) too much information for something that I am not directly involved in to any extent.

I fully agree that someone needs to scope the signal. I know for a fact that the 00-02 sensor works with a 94 PCM considering I am running an 01 3400 off of my 94 PCM and I never changed the cam sensor. I can scope mine and compare the signal to what I have from GM for a 94 signal. But that won't mean anything unless a 03+ is scoped since it's the design being used.

But as stated, I'm just going to sit back and watch from now on...

I don't know anything, but I think this is what Casper's is doing to make the harness that plugs into the 03 sensor and existing wiring harness.

Maybe Milzy can shed some light on this.

xon

[AaronGTR]

As soon as someone buys me an oscilloscope and shows me how to use it I'll do that. They aren't exactly cheap or easily accessible for most people ya know.


What I do know is they did change the sensor and the wire harness between the years, so I have made the appropriate changes so that my engine will be running the same set up as an '03 engine/cam. I'll try running it that way first, and if it doesn't work then obviously the signal is different. If it is then it's nothing that shouldn't be easily fixable with programming. Thats all that it is, is the way the pcm program interprets the signal. Nothing else that I know of has changed between the years (other than the injectors from '99 to '00) so there's no reason an '03 program shouldn't work in my car. I've actually used a '99 program in my car once and it ran. Not perfectly, but not too bad either and it was drivable. As far as the trans, the programming may be different from year to year, but the transmission is the same, and uses all the same hardware and sensors. I've already researched that, as well as had the trans rebuilt with all the updated parts, none of which would affect how the trans worked with the pcm. So really there is no reason an '03 program should not run perfectly in my car if it's tuned properly.

[GTPprix]

I still cant believe these things were sold to customers with no imperical modeling or testing unreal..

[xonelith]

Originally Posted by GTPprix

I still cant believe these things were sold to customers with no imperical modeling or testing unreal..

Well, personally, I just wanted some more power. Since not many have a cam, and I prefer an all motor car, I went this route, full knowing that some testing would be involved (hence the purchase of HPTuners).

I don't mind this, it's kind of fun. I confirmed with quite a few GM techs (since I know f*** all) that running w/o a cps is ok for the short term.

Milzy will have to comment on the imperical modelling since I believe alot of testing did go into the design of the cam (just not on a real car).

So far I've had no problems, just the kr issue mentioned earlier in the post (due to the torque management setup to save the tranny). I've been to the dealer (my wife works there and the techs are happy to help) a few times just to have things checked out and all is fine!! I've put roughly 2500 km on my new setup.

One thing I have learned from these message boards, is there is alot of information and knowledgeable people. I like reading these posts and getting the comments and suggestions from members.

It is difficult for me to decipher what is real information or someone BSUMA (blowing smoke up my a**) since I really don't know a whole lot. I've also noticed alot of people say things they really know nothing about (this is not directed at anyone in particular) which I contradict once I get confirmation or try it myself. This is what drives me to do **** that others think is stupid

You might notice I try to tell it like it is. I have no issues telling people the problems I run into with this setup in case there are others thinking about getting it done. Also, I'm probably not able to 'theorize'

There are alot of stupid things people do in an attempt to make their car faster (ie buy MSD coils ) but sometimes they work out. I think this mod is going to work out for me.

xon

[MilzyZ34]

i thought we went through this before, but oh well ...

yes, there was a huge amount of time invested in determing the proper cam specs for these based on things like headflow, stock head limitations, streetability, power, idle, use with stock pcm, etc etc. we also spent a lot of time and money at the machine shop on this project. we did not have an actual guinea pig car prior to production, however so much time was spent in the beginning that the cars we've done so far have been perfectly fine. this cam sensor thing is a slight issue, and will be resolved shortly.

[xonelith]

well, put the cam position sensor in... original 01 sensor. Seems to work, but now I see all the misfires I get at idle. As soon as I get on the throttle, the misfires go away.

I was told by my GM tech, that at idle, this is normal for a cammed car. Is this true? Or is there some tuning I need to do to get rid of it?

[Malaclypse]

Your PCM will register misfires at idle because the crank is speeding up and slowing down irregularly compared to the PCMs stock programming. This is why many OBD2 cammed cars have the code P0300 deleted from the PCM.

Don't worry about those 'misfires' because they are false. There is no way to tune them out other than bumping the idle up until the cam can reach a steady idle. There's no point in that unless you spend all your time at the drag strip.

In other words, there's nothing you can do. This is completely normal for a car with a cam. If you have no misfires cruising down the road then you have nothing to worry about.

[tejohnson]

Originally Posted by xonelith

well, put the cam position sensor in... original 01 sensor. Seems to work, but now I see all the misfires I get at idle. As soon as I get on the throttle, the misfires go away.

I was told by my GM tech, that at idle, this is normal for a cammed car. Is this true? Or is there some tuning I need to do to get rid of it?

For a car w/ a cam, this is expected. However, I see the same thing at idle. I have a heavily modified MAF table though. I am curious about doing work with the MAF and VE tables to eliminate this. We shall see in time

[xonelith]

Originally Posted by Malaclypse

Your PCM will register misfires at idle because the crank is speeding up and slowing down irregularly compared to the PCMs stock programming. This is why many OBD2 cammed cars have the code P0300 deleted from the PCM.

Don't worry about those 'misfires' because they are false. There is no way to tune them out other than bumping the idle up until the cam can reach a steady idle. There's no point in that unless you spend all your time at the drag strip.

In other words, there's nothing you can do. This is completely normal for a car with a cam. If you have no misfires cruising down the road then you have nothing to worry about.

Good news. Thanks. No misfires while i'm running, just at idle.

If I disable this code, it won't register a true misfire right?

xon

[tejohnson]

If you delete P0300, it is similar to deleting the EGR codes. It is one of the tests in the GM driving cycle. There are codes for each individual cylinder if I'm not mistaken... Ex: P301, P0302, P0303, etc.

[FORTEEN3GT]

Originally Posted by xonelith

well, put the cam position sensor in... original 01 sensor. Seems to work, but now I see all the misfires I get at idle. As soon as I get on the throttle, the misfires go away.

Can someone confirm whether or not the Sequential Fuel Injection is working with the 01 sensor on an 03 trigger?

How can this be confirmed??

[xonelith]

Originally Posted by FORTEEN3GT

Can someone confirm whether or not the Sequential Fuel Injection is working with the 01 sensor on an 03 trigger?

How can this be confirmed??

Not sure what you mean. I'm using the stock 01 setup. No 03 anything.

It was confirmed by Caspers that the 01 setup works the same as the 03 setup. The only concern from me was is the 01 sensor too long. Confirmed that both the 03 and 01 sensor is the same length.

I'm probably misreading what you are asking. I really don't know what I'm doing

I can give you a scan from HPTuners that might help. What parameters would you like to see?

[MilzyZ34]

Originally Posted by FORTEEN3GT

Can someone confirm whether or not the Sequential Fuel Injection is working with the 01 sensor on an 03 trigger?

How can this be confirmed??

we've worked the issue out with Casper's. they found that the 00-02 sensor and 03 had the exact same output. here's the solution we've come up with, and i'm sure you all will like it ... 03 cars keep their 03 sensor, 00-02 cars keep their stock sensor, the 94-99 cars will need an 00-02 sensor, and the adapter harness casper's has made for us.

[Sprucegagt]

Originally Posted by MilzyZ34

we've worked the issue out with Casper's. they found that the 00-02 sensor and 03 had the exact same output. here's the solution we've come up with, and i'm sure you all will like it ... 03 cars keep their 03 sensor, 00-02 cars keep their stock sensor, the 94-99 cars will need an 00-02 sensor, and the adapter harness casper's has made for us.

I figured each sensor has the same output since it would be the most cost effective change instead of reprogramming the computer. But do you know if an 99 or 01 sensor still has the same output when used with an 03 cam?