Buick Lucerne News: Official Photos

[bigbenSC]

Originally Posted by Mike3800

Yeah PEOPLE!! Get a heavy G6 with a state of the art OHV 3500 that has less HP and torque than a 3800!! You people need to get a clue!

Again, I never mentioned that I like the engine in my car, you brought the G6 into this! You say that the 3800 beats the base engines in the Accord, Camry, Altima. Well I hardly consider the Lucerne a competitor to those cars, thats the G6 or LaCrosse's job. The Lucerne is more like a Maxima or Avalon type of car, larger than any of the midsizers. The Maxima has the 3.5 265 HP/255 Lb-Ft standard and the new Avalon (2006) has 3.5 280 HP/260 Lb-Ft standard! The 3800, even the beloved supercharged varient, is definately not the engine that should be in a car that competes with that crowd!

Now why don't you get a clue as to what cars this new Buick will compete with and the powertrains that they ofer.

[Mike3800]

Originally Posted by bigbengt67

Again, I never mentioned that I like the engine in my car, you brought the G6 into this! You say that the 3800 beats the base engines in the Accord, Camry, Altima. Well I hardly consider the Lucerne a competitor to those cars, thats the G6 or LaCrosse's job.

The last thing you said was

Originally Posted by bigbengt67

I give up trying to convince you guys that the 3800 is not a competitive engine and needs to be replaced!

3800 is a base engine now in every application. It is very compediative as a base engine as I said, it beats nearly every base engine out there.

Keep. without a clue.

[Vintalage]

Originally Posted by Mike3800

The last thing you said was



3800 is a base engine now in every application. It is very compediative as a base engine as I said, it beats nearly every base engine out there.

Keep. without a clue.

Not in this car.

Alternately, buyers can pick a 195-hp version of GM’s time-tested 3800 Series III V-6, though considering the size of Lucerne , that’s a lot of metal for the smaller engine to pull around.

And I believe that's part of what bigbengt67 is getting at. That power is inadequate given the size and brand of this car. Buick is suppsed to an uplevel brand and this is what they offer as a base engine? As ben pointed out, the Maxima offers the 3.5 V6 standard and the new Avalon's standard engine puts out 280 HP/260 Lb-Ft.

The 3800 just isn't going to cut it. It's similar to what Chrysler is offering in the base 300. That heavy car needs more power to move along reasonably. 190hp/torque is rediculous.

[Vintalage]

By the way, I sat in the new 2006 Avalon today. The Lucerne has some tough competition. The Avalon is like a Lexus inside. The materials are fantastic. I couldn't believe I was sitting in a Toyota.

[bigbenSC]

Thanks Vintalage, glad to know 2 of us realize what it takes to be competitive in the full sized sedan market. That new Avalon is really nice, I was in one at the NAIAS and couldn't believe it wasn't a Lexus either.

[jake3217]

Bigbengt67, please note that putting what you percieve to be a competitive engine into a car will not automatically make it competitive. If performance was the deciding factor in the car buying process, we would all be driving the same car.

If the 3800 was in the top of the line model, I would agree with you two. But since it's the base engine, I really see no problem in it.

The base model Lucerne won't cost as much as the base models of some of its competitors - look at the ES330, or the GS300 for instance.* The base models will probably cost a few thousand more than the base Lucerne. However, when you go up a few trim levels, and get the price of the Lucerne up to the ES330 price range, you'll have the V8 putting down 275 hp in the Lucerne vs the 225 horsepower in the ES330. Besides, base model vs base model, the Lucerne is only down 30 horsepower on a car that will probably cost thousands more. Woo, GM is really losing it!

*Disclaimer: I know the pricing on the Lucerne isn't out yet, but I have a feeling it'll be in that range - GM's pricing trends as of late have been easy to follow.

Besides, the Series III in the Lucerne won't be all that slow. I imagine it will be about the same performance wise (maybe even quicker) as my dad's Series II N/A Bonneville. Believe it or not, the Series II in a Bonneville is pretty quick. That thing is an absolute torque monster, and a real pleasure to drive around town.

I expect the Lucerne to be a good alternative to foreign brands. Even the base model will be competitve at least in terms of price, if not in terms of performance.

[Mike3800]

Originally Posted by Vintalage

Not in this car.

How do you know? Have you driven it? If it weighs the same as the LeSabre, then depending on the gearing it can accelerate to 60MPH in less than 8 seconds, this is more than plenty for a base model full size FWD sedan.

Originally Posted by Vintalage

Buick is suppsed to an uplevel brand and this is what they offer as a base engine? As ben pointed out, the Maxima offers the 3.5 V6 standard and the new Avalon's standard engine puts out 280 HP/260 Lb-Ft.

Another thing you are forgetting is price. You cannot get an Avalon base model, and you cannot get an Avalon for $24,000 like you can a LeSabre, and likley the base Lucerne.

Originally Posted by Vintalage

The 3800 just isn't going to cut it. It's similar to what Chrysler is offering in the base 300. That heavy car needs more power to move along reasonably. 190hp/torque is rediculous.

The Chrysler is a much heavier RWD sedan, but even with that, for the $$ you pay for the base 300, you cannot get a sedan that performs like what you are implying that it should perform like... not for the $$.



I stand by what I say, 3800 is a great base model engine, it is reliable and performs better than nearly every base engine in any of it's applications class.

Lastly I know that you are not talking out your ass like certain people and trying to win an argument no matter how stupid it sounds, so I have no problems with your opinion and in fact, I respect your opinon... as much as you can respect a person's opinon on an internet forum.

[Mike3800]

Originally Posted by jake3217

Believe it or not, the Series II in a Bonneville is pretty quick. That thing is an absolute torque monster, and a real pleasure to drive around town.

So you have driven a car with one and are not just talking out your butt?

What year is his Bonneville? I had a 1996 Bonneville.

[jake3217]

Originally Posted by Mike3800

So you have driven a car with one and are not just talking out your butt?

What year is his Bonneville? I had a 1996 Bonneville.

It's a 99.

[Mike3800]

Originally Posted by jake3217

It's a 99.

Those are nice. I like big cars.

[bigbenSC]

Originally Posted by Mike3800

Those are nice. I like big cars.

Yet you drive a Cavalier?

[Mike3800]

Originally Posted by bigbengt67

Yet you drive a Cavalier?

I needed an economy car. A large car is not an economy car.

I like Ferrari's too. I like lots of things.

What's your excuse for driving a heavy car with an OHV V6 when you say it's old technology.

Ample vehicles in it's category with better engines for less or the same money.

Oh

[jake3217]

Originally Posted by bigbengt67

Yet you drive a Cavalier?

ZING!!! You really got him good there, slugger!


Some people have to make choices. Given the choice of a nice expensive luxury car now, or an econobox and money saved for the future...I'll go for the econobox.

[Vintalage]

I still don't believe a car which is supposed to compete against Lexus should be available with such an engine as it's base. It's not the right approach. To me, it's like GM is stepping backwards instead of moving forward. This is no way to make a class leading car.

Not the right approach at all.

[bigbenSC]

Originally Posted by Mike3800

I needed an economy car. A large car is not an economy car.

What's your excuse for driving a heavy car with an OHV V6 when you say it's old technology.
Ample vehicles in it's category with better engines for less or the same money.

I got my car cheap, real cheap! Show me a better car on a 2 year lease with nothing down for 228 a month! I couldn't find any, hence I'm driving a G6 GT, if it had a more competitive engine that would be great, but it didn't at the time. You keep bringing up the fact that I drive a G6; what car I drive, what car you drive, is beside the point that the 3800 with under 200 HP in the Lucerne is NOT the engine to offer, even as a BASE engine!

[Mike3800]

Originally Posted by bigbengt67

, is beside the point that the 3800 with under 200 HP in the Lucerne is NOT the engine to offer, even as a BASE engine!

It's in there so it is the engine to offer. It's a better engine than what you have, like I have proven, it's an award winning reliable as the sunrise engine, a good base engine in most people's eyes, and a better base engine than nearly every base engine when you compare class for class when this engine is used.

Better than the Chrysler 300C base engine, better than the Ford 500 engine, better than the Altima base engine, Camry, Accord etc...

[Mike3800]

Originally Posted by bigbengt67

I got my car cheap, real cheap! Show me a better car on a 2 year lease with nothing down for 228 a month!

I will look it up later today for you, in your state.

[bigbenSC]

You keep saying the same thing, the Lucerne does not compete with the Camry, Accord, Altima... The 500 and 300 yes but those two also start out about 3,000 less than an 05 Lesabre. The 500 is a turd and will not be successfull until Ford drops a new engine in it either. GM can't be content just competing with Ford and Chrysler, they will never gain back market share that way. I see this cars competitors as the Maxima and Avalon. The 3800 simply does not cut it here. Why are you still talking about my cars engine? I thought I said it didn't matter and was beside the point. If you think that a 195 HP engine is competitve in the full sized sedan market, even as a base engine in a brand new model, then you are wrong my friend.

[Mike3800]

Originally Posted by bigbengt67

. If you think that a 195 HP engine is competitve in the full sized sedan market, even as a base engine in a brand new model, then you are wrong my friend.

It is compedative. Name some full sized sedans in the price range of the LeSabre and name thier base engines. You will see the 3800 beats every last base engine in it's class.

BTW.. it hasn't been a 195HP engine since 1998, it is 205HP for the Series II and 200HP for the SeriesIII in the larger cars. Torque ratings vary per model.

I will say it again since yoi mised it the first 7 times. No... never mind. You will never get it, I am wasting calories typing this.

Is the 155HP Taurus base model a dud too? Cause it sure sells well.

[bigbenSC]

Originally Posted by Mike3800

BTW.. it hasn't been a 195HP engine since 1998, it is 205HP for the Series II and 200HP for the SeriesIII in the larger cars. Torque ratings vary per model.
Is the 155HP Taurus base model a dud too? Cause it sure sells well.

"Alternately, buyers can pick a 195-hp version of GM’s time-tested 3800 Series III V-6, though considering the size of Lucerne , that’s a lot of metal for the smaller engine to pull around."

Looks like it's 2005 and the series III 3800 is making 195 HP, thats progress!

Do I think the Taurus is underpowered, hell yeah! Don't get me started on that car. Last time I checked its prime competitors (Accord, Camry) were kicking its ass in the sales race, I'm not sure but the Malibu and Grand Am may have outsold it too.

Lets agree to disagree on this car, we can start this again when GM puts out another car that doesn't have the drivetrain to compete with the best, God knows it will happen again.