GAGT vs Cobalt SS - Page 7

clark75 · 07-27-2005, 09:24 AM

Forged pistons wont lower your CR unless you get some that are dished.

3400Impala · 07-27-2005, 07:45 PM

The people I am talking to about pistons know that I will be using them to lower my compression so they will have them lower my compression.

Fish · 07-27-2005, 10:42 PM

Forged doesnt mean it lowers KR though. Thats what clark is saying. Just like the L36 and L67 have different pistons for different compression ratios. You can order forged pistons with stock CR if you wanted.

3400Impala · 07-27-2005, 10:44 PM

I know I was saying they will be forged but also made to lower my compression, the pistons i will be purchasing will lower my CR.

Schweppe23 · 07-27-2005, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish

3.4 is 8PSI?? Thats news to me since the M90 is rated at 7PSI with the stock 3.8 pulley. Everyone I know hits 10PSI lightly modded with a 3.4 pulley.

Also, there is no way he can run a 3.4 pulley without some MAJOR mods without knock. I dont care if gods finger touched his PCM and commanded it not to knock. It will with that bumped compression.

He will either need an intercooler, or a cam to fend off knock if he wants to run a smaller pulley. And since he is using a 3400 engine, I dont know if the current intercoolers on the market will work.

I'm gonna have to disagree, i think that he can get away with running a 3.4 pulley no problem. A couple reasons for my thinking this. The crank pulley diameter of a Grand Am changes the ratio & boost values that GTP modders live by, so we can't go by those. I'd be willing to bet that the 3.4 would probably only be good for 6ish psi.(rough est.) I have some formulas that will provide a more accurate psi but you guys see my point. Also, our heads being aluminum helps us out some too. I hear others say how the 60degreev6 is less prone to knock vs the 3800 but that could just be biased heresay.

I do think that a cam/race gas would go a long way. Also seeing how members here have pushed 10psi by overspinning the mp62 with no cam/ no tuning/pump gas without any engine probs. A slower turning m90 would def have lower IAT's and def, better results.

.02

3400Impala · 07-27-2005, 11:05 PM

I hope i can run the 3.4 but ill play it safe til my car is happily running a 4 or 3.8 on there! The aluminum heads are a good thing and I def see some potential in the 3400.

Just to let everyone know I ran my friends gtp today from first a 50 rol and lost by prob 8 car lengths. Ran from a 75 roll and only lost by 3/4 car. He has basically a warm air intake, colder plugs and a 3.4 pulley. I was pretty pleased knowing I have ported lower manifolds, L67 throttle body, 180 tstat and an M90 sitting in my trunk!

clark75 · 07-28-2005, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3400Impala

I was pretty pleased knowing I have ported lower manifolds, L67 throttle body, 180 tstat and an M90 sitting in my trunk!

I think those actually have to be installed in the engine area before you'll get any power gains.

:

: J/K

FORTEEN3GT · 07-28-2005, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish

3.4 is 8PSI?? Thats news to me since the M90 is rated at 7PSI with the stock 3.8 pulley. Everyone I know hits 10PSI lightly modded with a 3.4 pulley.

Also, there is no way he can run a 3.4 pulley without some MAJOR mods without knock. I dont care if gods finger touched his PCM and commanded it not to knock. It will with that bumped compression.

He will either need an intercooler, or a cam to fend off knock if he wants to run a smaller pulley. And since he is using a 3400 engine, I dont know if the current intercoolers on the market will work.

l67's and LA1's are different engines..... one car will spin differently then th other. also rotating mass should go in the equation... as well as head styles and intake/valve configuration. I would assume the GAGT is going to be cooler when boosted than a GTP... also if he gets rid of the log mani's he will have no problem with a 3.4 pullied blower, exhaust, headers, and tuning combo with little to no knock. My GAGT has less tahn 2 degrees of knock at the shift points in 100 degree weather!

Lash · 07-28-2005, 10:07 AM

I agree with Schweppe and FORTEEN

Fish · 07-28-2005, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schweppe23

I'm gonna have to disagree, i think that he can get away with running a 3.4 pulley no problem. A couple reasons for my thinking this. The crank pulley diameter of a Grand Am changes the ratio & boost values that GTP modders live by, so we can't go by those. I'd be willing to bet that the 3.4 would probably only be good for 6ish psi.(rough est.) I have some formulas that will provide a more accurate psi but you guys see my point. Also, our heads being aluminum helps us out some too. I hear others say how the 60degreev6 is less prone to knock vs the 3800 but that could just be biased heresay.

I do think that a cam/race gas would go a long way. Also seeing how members here have pushed 10psi by overspinning the mp62 with no cam/ no tuning/pump gas without any engine probs. A slower turning m90 would def have lower IAT's and def, better results.

.02

A slower turning M90 will put out more boost than a faster turning M62 though.

Time will tell. I really hope he gets it working on his car. Would be very cool to see. Give the GA crowd something else to look forward too.

tejohnson · 07-28-2005, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish

A slower turning M90 will put out more boost than a faster turning M62 though.

Time will tell. I really hope he gets it working on his car. Would be very cool to see. Give the GA crowd something else to look forward too.

I don't get it really... A turbo would work out fine. With the M90, how would you be able to also squeeze in an intercooler? More air, but just as hot... That would make me nervous.

Schweppe23 · 07-28-2005, 07:19 PM

Yeah, pretty tough to fit an intercooler, possible but that blower may end up sitting higher than the roof of the car, then wind resistance will probably be a problem

. Another solution that works would be to run alky injection. But i don't like the idea of injesting it before the blower. Atleast with my setup i can spray after the blower saving the teflon on my rotors, and still cooling the charge.

tejohnson · 07-28-2005, 07:43 PM

I hooked the boost controller back up this evening

I turn = 1 PSI. On top of the 10psi spring I already have in my wastegate

Figured I'm running a little too rich at WOT. That should take car of that...

Schweppe23 · 07-28-2005, 07:53 PM

...what kinda times are you expecting?

tejohnson · 07-28-2005, 07:58 PM

I really have no clue. We will see after my first pass next Fri

I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I posted in the miswest forum asking what folk's plans are....

I'm just curious why folks seem so hellbent on a blower. You have certainly created a following Pat (as well as the other boost bro's).

Schweppe23 · 07-28-2005, 08:06 PM

yeah, i dunno i think ppl just feel more comfortable with them. i'd like to try a turbo out but my wallet keeps getting lighter, so i'll just have to settle for my s/c

3400Impala · 07-28-2005, 09:31 PM

ZZP makes an intercooler that only raises the supercharger an inch if I do et the upper manifold adapter. Not worried about an intercooler yet just running at stock boost and tuning, then prob headers are next after that and then a cam and heads, not exactly sure yet. I'm not going to get ahead of myself and think about when I push the boost to 8 or 10 or 12.

Also the blower may be mounted simlarly to the M62 on your grand ams, just need to get custom motor mounts, speaking of can I get a pic of someones motor mounts and the exact locations by chance? Thanks in advance.

Fish · 07-28-2005, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schweppe23

Yeah, pretty tough to fit an intercooler, possible but that blower may end up sitting higher than the roof of the car, then wind resistance will probably be a problem

. Another solution that works would be to run alky injection. But i don't like the idea of injesting it before the blower. Atleast with my setup i can spray after the blower saving the teflon on my rotors, and still cooling the charge.

Im also not a fan of alky. Ive seen it on a few cars. Looks nice and all. It basically does cool the charge, but I dont see impressive times being ran with it since most GPers use it to drop down to an insane pulley size with no knock. Then they wonder why their CAI and 3.1 pulley with alky only runs 14 flat.

Some also say spraying it into the blower helps since it actually drops the blower temp as well as the air temp.

urweak · 12-27-2005, 03:53 AM

The Cobalt SS would give a GAGT a run for its money let alone the Cobalt SS S/C.

iroc355 · 12-27-2005, 11:59 AM

He did not state a Cobalt SS/SC, he just said a cobalt SS. The regular SS has a 175 hp 2.4L ecotec.

07-27-2005, 09:24 AM	#121
clark75 in your eye Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Salem, OR Age: 46 Posts: 274 Vehicle: 2002 Monte LS	Forged pistons wont lower your CR unless you get some that are dished. __________________ 2002 Monte Carlo LS, GMPP handling kit, poly bushings, custom intake, NGK iridium plugs, magnecor 8.5KV wires, 62mm TB, UD crank pulley, Milzy Motorsports cat-back dual exhaust w/ u-bend removed and borlas, ported UIM, Intense shift kit, Intense poly motor mounts, S&S Headers, hi-flo cat. RIP F-body caliper swap and Pro-M MAF. my cardomain pg.

07-27-2005, 07:45 PM	#122
3400Impala GAGT - Member AKA: Brandon Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Age: 37 Posts: 172 Vehicle: 2002 3400 Impala	The people I am talking to about pistons know that I will be using them to lower my compression so they will have them lower my compression. __________________ 2002 3400 Impala All that matters- Soon to be blown.

07-27-2005, 10:42 PM	#123
Fish DO DO DO DO DO DO DO AKA: Brian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Elk Grove Village, IL Age: 39 Posts: 85 Vehicle: 1999 Grand Prix GT	Forged doesnt mean it lowers KR though. Thats what clark is saying. Just like the L36 and L67 have different pistons for different compression ratios. You can order forged pistons with stock CR if you wanted. __________________ Check out my website. 14.94 @ 91 MPH

07-27-2005, 10:44 PM	#124
3400Impala GAGT - Member AKA: Brandon Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Age: 37 Posts: 172 Vehicle: 2002 3400 Impala	I know I was saying they will be forged but also made to lower my compression, the pistons i will be purchasing will lower my CR. __________________ 2002 3400 Impala All that matters- Soon to be blown.

07-27-2005, 11:05 PM	#126
3400Impala GAGT - Member AKA: Brandon Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Age: 37 Posts: 172 Vehicle: 2002 3400 Impala	I hope i can run the 3.4 but ill play it safe til my car is happily running a 4 or 3.8 on there! The aluminum heads are a good thing and I def see some potential in the 3400. Just to let everyone know I ran my friends gtp today from first a 50 rol and lost by prob 8 car lengths. Ran from a 75 roll and only lost by 3/4 car. He has basically a warm air intake, colder plugs and a 3.4 pulley. I was pretty pleased knowing I have ported lower manifolds, L67 throttle body, 180 tstat and an M90 sitting in my trunk! __________________ 2002 3400 Impala All that matters- Soon to be blown.

07-28-2005, 10:07 AM	#129
Lash Slow 5.0 AKA: Luke Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Milwaukee Age: 42 Posts: 1,047 Vehicle: '02 ZR-2/ '89 LX 5.0	I agree with Schweppe and FORTEEN __________________ Pinto II http://videos.streetfire.net/video/4...f3013c716f.htm http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...mustangpic.jpg

07-28-2005, 07:19 PM	#132
Schweppe23 GAGT - Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ohio Age: 41 Posts: 1,549 Vehicle: Pontiac	Yeah, pretty tough to fit an intercooler, possible but that blower may end up sitting higher than the roof of the car, then wind resistance will probably be a problem . Another solution that works would be to run alky injection. But i don't like the idea of injesting it before the blower. Atleast with my setup i can spray after the blower saving the teflon on my rotors, and still cooling the charge. __________________ First 99+ GAGT to run 14s First E/M (only) GA to run 13s First turbo'D GAGT to run 12s 11's coming soon

07-28-2005, 07:43 PM	#133
tejohnson Just a hobby... AKA: Todd Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Parkersburg, WV && Philadelphia, PA Age: 45 Posts: 1,717 Vehicle: 2004 GMC Sierra 2500	I hooked the boost controller back up this evening I turn = 1 PSI. On top of the 10psi spring I already have in my wastegate Figured I'm running a little too rich at WOT. That should take car of that... __________________ Regards, Todd E. Johnson SpyhunteR's #1 fan. 99 Grand Am (13.4@108) - Recycled

07-28-2005, 07:53 PM	#134
Schweppe23 GAGT - Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ohio Age: 41 Posts: 1,549 Vehicle: Pontiac	...what kinda times are you expecting? __________________ First 99+ GAGT to run 14s First E/M (only) GA to run 13s First turbo'D GAGT to run 12s 11's coming soon

07-28-2005, 07:58 PM	#135
tejohnson Just a hobby... AKA: Todd Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Parkersburg, WV && Philadelphia, PA Age: 45 Posts: 1,717 Vehicle: 2004 GMC Sierra 2500	I really have no clue. We will see after my first pass next Fri I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I posted in the miswest forum asking what folk's plans are.... I'm just curious why folks seem so hellbent on a blower. You have certainly created a following Pat (as well as the other boost bro's). __________________ Regards, Todd E. Johnson SpyhunteR's #1 fan. 99 Grand Am (13.4@108) - Recycled

07-28-2005, 08:06 PM	#136
Schweppe23 GAGT - Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ohio Age: 41 Posts: 1,549 Vehicle: Pontiac	yeah, i dunno i think ppl just feel more comfortable with them. i'd like to try a turbo out but my wallet keeps getting lighter, so i'll just have to settle for my s/c __________________ First 99+ GAGT to run 14s First E/M (only) GA to run 13s First turbo'D GAGT to run 12s 11's coming soon

07-28-2005, 09:31 PM	#137
3400Impala GAGT - Member AKA: Brandon Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Age: 37 Posts: 172 Vehicle: 2002 3400 Impala	ZZP makes an intercooler that only raises the supercharger an inch if I do et the upper manifold adapter. Not worried about an intercooler yet just running at stock boost and tuning, then prob headers are next after that and then a cam and heads, not exactly sure yet. I'm not going to get ahead of myself and think about when I push the boost to 8 or 10 or 12. Also the blower may be mounted simlarly to the M62 on your grand ams, just need to get custom motor mounts, speaking of can I get a pic of someones motor mounts and the exact locations by chance? Thanks in advance. __________________ 2002 3400 Impala All that matters- Soon to be blown.

12-27-2005, 03:53 AM	#139
urweak GAGT - Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Age: 38 Posts: 143 Vehicle: 1997 Grand Am SE	The Cobalt SS would give a GAGT a run for its money let alone the Cobalt SS S/C. __________________ www.quad4forums.com

12-27-2005, 11:59 AM	#140
iroc355 GAGT - Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Winnipeg, Mb Posts: 47 Vehicle: 2001 Grand Am GT1	He did not state a Cobalt SS/SC, he just said a cobalt SS. The regular SS has a 175 hp 2.4L ecotec.

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