Whats the best Woofer EVER?

[Shane N]

Originally Posted by Punk0Rama

"solox sounds good, w7 isn't bad"<--- that statement alone is quite funny.

nonetheless, i would've loved to have seen either a brahma or an XXX in the test, and they were going to be, but both owners of their respective companies declined, most likely related to a disagreement between themselves and ben milne, the owner of eD who conducted the tests.

They didn't decline, they completely ignored it

[MIAaron]

Originally Posted by Metallman56

wow this is turnig into a war. miaaron thanks for clearing that up for all of us. it seems as though confussion was set in by differnt ways of measering excursion. you have obviously been into car audio longer than probley me and punkorama compined. again thankyou for clearing things up.
also what you said about amps and outout what did you think about cheater amps a few years back. the ones that were rated 2ohms 1watt and at 1 ohm they would put out a thousand or so. i dont remember the numbers but it was something like that.
punkorama, if you read your post about the bostons 3" excursion you clearly say that boston has, in bold print mind you, MORE THAN 3" OF EXCURSION. that is why i dont you to sue them, because they dont claim more than, they just say 3". guess you didnt get that. its hard to have a good conversation with someone who wont take there head out of there ass long enough to realize when they made a mistake, but when others do it look out! all hell is about to break loose. i never said jl was terible, again i was looking into buying a w7 before the g5 came out. i wanted to give boston a chance because i really like the 12.5 woofer they had before the g5. the closest boston retailer to my house was in ft.wayne which is about a 90minute drive. they had orderd 2 for me, of the g5s, and i was one of the first to get a pair in the state. any way before i bought it, of course i had to hear what it sounded like. although we couldnt push it to hard, because it wasnt broken in yet, i thought it kept up with the w7, and in sq was better. that is why i went with bostons. honestly i do not think the g5 is the best woofer out there. it would probey be in top 10 but it wouldnt take #1. its hard to say what would, and its hard to judge woofers, with the naked ear, without hearing them back to back. so in my opinion i dont know what the best woofer ever is. the kenwood1300dvc sounds great. the solo xs sound good, the w7 isnt bad, its really a toss up.
how can value not have a part to determine the best woofer? if jl made a 12w10 and the thing was louder than the pioneer, and sounded better than the kenwood, but it was 10,000 dollars would it be the best? for a normal american like my self, theres no way it could be. yeah i would respect it but i could never afford it. therefore to compete against it i would have to use perhapes a pair of woofers, but if i could do it and save alot of money doing it than why not? again value is everything. again i like jl, just not enough bang for my buck. also i have explaned why the w7 is overrated, once i am not going to do it again. go back and read it.
i have exahausted my case for the last time. this is truely the last time that i go back and forth with people about the w7. its a great driver blah blah blah, we get it. punkorama can you give me another sub you like that wasnt in the test? perhapes we can agree on that. miaaron what is your fav sub? you been in the biz for a long time, who do you like? these are the things i would like to know. what would you recomend to your friends, if jl and boston were never a company?
again thanks to all for there opinions they are valued more by some than others

It's easy to get confused with the way companies state things. For example, BA listing 3" p2p excursion at the beginning of their features is a little shady. I would have expected better than that from them, but obviously their marketing department won that battle.

As far as cheater amps, they were good for their time. I have owned, and still own, quite a few. It just shows that manufs will do whatever it takes to sell their product. For instance, look at the rehashed punch 45 from RF. Sure it was a great amp back in its time, but the times have changed and technology has advanced. I would take the new one over the old one, but the new one is way overpriced. But it is a limited niche market, so it is easy to see they can get a higher markup.

And once again I will state, I'm not a JL lover. I do know my local JL dealer well enought that he lets me try any of the products he sells in my car. I am very familiar with the majority of their products. I also think the w7 is overpriced. The only thing that brought all of it up was your claims of the g5 as far as clean output vs the w7. The g5 is a good woofer, and I can easily see how someone could prefer it over the w7. Displacement doesn't determine sound quality. None of my favorite subs are high displacement subs.

I understand that value is important. It is very important to me also. If I could afford the top notch audio stuff, I doubt I would know nearly as much about audio. But please just understand that the price of an object has no effect on it's function or performance. Just because a sub is "$10,000" does not mean it that can't be the best performing sub in the world.

My 'favorite' sub changes around a lot. But I must say, the word going around about the new XXLS from peerless is true. It is a stellar performer. It won't score high with the bassheads though. In general though, I prefer the very dynamic and uncolored sound of infinite baffle bass. My home sub consists of 4 15" IB subs, and I love it. Unfortunatly I don't see how to get good IB bass into a GA without giving up the back seat, or ripping out the rear window and redoing the rear support structure of the vehicle. Needless to say, I doubt that I will ever be happy with the sub bass in it. I have been thinking about getting rid of a dedicated sub all together though. I'm in the process of modifying my doors to hold a large 8". If that doesn't satisfy me, I might try some 8's IB in the rear shelf. Otherwise, I'll just use my IDMax.

As far as recommending products, I usually do it on a case-by-case basis. It's more important for them to hear the products for themself. The less someone knows about audio, the more important it is. With how much the sound of a product can change just due to the application/install, it is also important to know the kind of sound someone likes. Given the thread topic, lets use subs for example. The majority of people out there don't even know their preferred "Total Q" response of a sealed enclosure. This is even true for many "audiophiles". I'll try make a post that goes over it this afternoon. For those of you with multi-sub sealed enclosures, you will be able to directly apply this in a small amount of time.

[Shane N]

Originally Posted by MIAaron

Unfortunatly I don't see how to get good IB bass into a GA without giving up the back seat, or ripping out the rear window and redoing the rear support structure of the vehicle.

Eh, it's possible. You seem to know a bit about SQ, so I'd assume you don't run your rear 6x9's. If you haven't already, remove them, and in their place, put some 6.5" subwoofers. You might have to cut a VERY little bit, but it wouldn't make the structural integrity of rear any worse. Before putting the carpet/cardboard back on the rear deck, sound dampen the crap out of it. And if you never fold down your seats, seal off the passage way with say a vinyl covered piece of mdf/plywood/bb/whatever. I think you'd come out with a very great sounding IB substage.

[MIAaron]

That was my plan, except if I can't fit at least an 8" in there, I'm not gonna bother. I've already been getting in touch with glass places to get an estimate on taking the rear glass out. I am going to be tearing into the rear deck next weekend hopefully. This weekend I will be finishing off the doors and installing my new h/u, if my damn mother in laws bday doesn't kill Sunday.

[DevilDriver]

Originally Posted by Shane N

They didn't decline, they completely ignored it

heh, i can see it now: "are you sure you want to delete this email? yes"

[Shane N]

Originally Posted by MIAaron

That was my plan, except if I can't fit at least an 8" in there, I'm not gonna bother. I've already been getting in touch with glass places to get an estimate on taking the rear glass out. I am going to be tearing into the rear deck next weekend hopefully. This weekend I will be finishing off the doors and installing my new h/u, if my damn mother in laws bday doesn't kill Sunday.

Have you looked at the Elemental Designs EU-700? Quite the 6.5

[MIAaron]

Thx, but if the 8's that are going into my doors won't do it, there is no way those will. Although I would be interested in seeing the qts of that driver.

[Shane N]

Originally Posted by MIAaron

Thx, but if the 8's that are going into my doors won't do it, there is no way those will. Although I would be interested in seeing the qts of that driver.

re 3.2
fs - 28hz
bl - 13.3 TM
qms - 10.5
qts - .29
qes -.3
vas - 22 L
xmax - 13mm

I have a friend of mine who is running two of these in a ~1cF enclosure from 125 down. It really adds more than you would think. If they were loading off of the back, or something other than being a console enclosure, there would be no need for a subwoofer for someone who isn't a basshead. Several of the CD's we demo'ed we had the subwoofer (custom made 18") off. They are some surprising little drivers

[MIAaron]

Thx for the t/s. The only problem is that my 8's already displace a lot more than them. They would be lucky to add 3db.

[DevilDriver]

Originally Posted by MIAaron

Thx for the t/s. The only problem is that my 8's already displace a lot more than them. They would be lucky to add 3db.

now i'm curious. what 8's are you using?

[Shane N]

MIAaron: Are you looking for bass, or for an SQ oriented system? I was thinking you were after an SQ system (not saying 8's won't sound good [I have 8 8's myself], but you were talking about dB's), but I must have taken it wrong.

[MIAaron]

Correct, I am putting together an sq system. I'm only talking about db's cuz the max increase of 3db isn't worth the extra effort and expense of adding two eu700's.

For example, let's say you have two 12's. Now someone recommends two 10's that have less displacement, and also recommends that you cross them over so that they fill in freq's lower than the 12's are playing. Would you do that?

[Metallman56]

if your going for sq i would recomend using either mb quart premium or boston z5 or z6. i dont know which i like more but the sq on both of them is outstanding. i know you are talking about subs, but both of these really rock.

[DevilDriver]

i refuse to use any of the post-rockford-buyout mbq stuff. i greatly enjoy the seas and scan-speak sets. focal as well, or the ID chameleons. i'm more of an sql guy, but i really dig a perfect sound stage because, even though there are more people doing audio lately, there are somehow less that know how to do a decent soundstage, imaging, rolloffs and the like.

[Metallman56]

have you heard the quarts? they really do sound great!

[DevilDriver]

Originally Posted by Metallman56

have you heard the quarts? they really do sound great!

yeah, i've heard a few lines of the mbq stuff. i prefer the older stuff before RF bought them out, particularly in the sub lines, back when vance ****ason did some designing for them.

[MIAaron]

The z6 sound nice. I liked them, but stuck with my seas ref set and adding a seas mid. Everything is on hold now though. Yesterday I found out my drz9255 won't accept optical inputs from any source besides the basic clarion 6 disc changer. It won't even accept it from their dvd changer. They claim it is a s/pdif input, but then tech support denies it. So now I'm probably just gonna return it and keep the damn denford, since it's digital input works fine. But now I have to go back to external processing, which means ****ty xover selection....

Did we come up with a conclusion yet??

[DumpsterDamon]

^ yes. me farting on a snare drum > *

[Shane N]

Originally Posted by MIAaron

Correct, I am putting together an sq system. I'm only talking about db's cuz the max increase of 3db isn't worth the extra effort and expense of adding two eu700's.

For example, let's say you have two 12's. Now someone recommends two 10's that have less displacement, and also recommends that you cross them over so that they fill in freq's lower than the 12's are playing. Would you do that?

I was just offering a suggestion that would make your life alot easier than trying to fit 8 inchers in your doors