Honda Civic Named Motor Trend Top Car for 2006

[Vintalage]

Originally Posted by Braves299

It's pretty annoying though when you have to rev the **** out of your car to get it to move. Low end torque is really where it's at.

Sacrifcing top end power. Top end power = passing power. It also makes it more of a drivers car.

[UNCTYPE-S]

Perfect example of low end vs. top end.

Pontiac GTP (low end) vs. Acura CL Type-S (auto) (top end)

Both run 14.7-14.9s roughly in the 1/4 stock, but I think motor trend or some magazine had the CL running a little quicker.

-From a dead stop, the GTP takes the CL off the line through much of 1st gear.
-2nd gear kicks in, the CL is gaining even with the GTP
-By 3rd gear the CL should be ahead by no more then a car length.

Of course that is all a drivers race, but with the same driver in the car, that is how it was predicted.

No I didnt make that up, so please save the flaming if you dont agree with that prediction.

[RAMAIRGT1]

edit:forget about the whole racing story crap

[Mike3800]

Originally Posted by RAMAIRGT1

I agree with that as well as I have beaten an 05 GPGTP, he had me off the line but i pulled on him and passed him after a few hundred yards
I also have tangled with a G6 GTP and it wasnt even close, i blew him off the line and never looked back

Hopefully no one notices your racing story and locks the thread.

05GPGTP... yeah, lots of variables there. had I of been behind the wheel, would have been a lil different.

[Mike3800]

Originally Posted by Vintalage

Sacrifcing top end power. Top end power = passing power. It also makes it more of a drivers car.

Just cause your GAGT couldn't pass a semi going 40MPH on a slight incline faster than a Honda Civic DX doesn't mean all cars with low end torque are like that. (you say all the time your car has no passing power... that's whay i said that.. )
Take for example a new 06 GTO. OK enough said. You hit the gas from a roll, BAM you pull immediatley no waiting for RPM's to get high, then next gear BAM, you are gone.

[RAMAIRGT1]

Originally Posted by Mike3800

Hopefully no one notices your racing story and locks the thread.

05GPGTP... yeah, lots of variables there. had I of been behind the wheel, would have been a lil different.

bring it

[RAMAIRGT1]

Originally Posted by Mike3800

Just cause your GAGT couldn't pass a semi going 40MPH on a slight incline faster than a Honda Civic DX doesn't mean all cars with low end torque are like that. (you say all the time your car has no passing power... that's whay i said that.. )
Take for example a new 06 GTO. OK enough said. You hit the gas from a roll, BAM you pull immediatley no waiting for RPM's to get high, then next gear BAM, you are gone.

comparing a v8 to v6's and 4 bangers now?

[Mike3800]

Originally Posted by RAMAIRGT1

comparing a v8 to v6's and 4 bangers now?

No. Making a point. "top end power" isn't passing power. SO many factors go into that. Gearing, begining speed of the pass, torque curve etc...

[Mike3800]

Originally Posted by RAMAIRGT1

bring it

*looks at car* ... wait... nevermind.

[RAMAIRGT1]

haha you crack me up!
i hear what you mean though....i really could care less how fast my car goes, i bought my bike for speed and my car for cruising

[Vintalage]

Originally Posted by Mike3800

No. Making a point. "top end power" isn't passing power. SO many factors go into that. Gearing, begining speed of the pass, torque curve etc...

Well, that may be true. But I was using that example in simplistic terms.

You mentioned the GTO. You do realize that is a larger engine?

[GrahamKracka]

Originally Posted by RAMAIRGT1

haha you crack me up!
i hear what you mean though....i really could care less how fast my car goes, i bought my bike for speed and my car for cruising

werd!!!

[Silver02EX]

Originally Posted by Mike3800

J
Take for example a new 06 GTO. OK enough said. You hit the gas from a roll, BAM you pull immediatley no waiting for RPM's to get high, then next gear BAM, you are gone.

I'll take my Honda for example, if i select the right gear when I want to pass, i'll already be in my powerband 4,300+ The only time I have to wait for my RPM to get high is from a stop, but you said from a roll. I never recall having to "wait" for my RPM to get high enough. The driver just have to select the right gear. You're probably thinking "well with the GTO you don't have to down shift, all you have to do is push the gas from a roll." I don't think it's that bad to wait a whole 1 second to drop 2 gears for a Honda to be in it's power band. If someone is too damn lazy to take a whole second to drownshift a couple of gears or don't like the idea of downshifting all the time then a Honda and stick is not made for them. Some people just love the idea of having a high redline. I love the saying "oh you always have to rev up a Honda/Acura to get any power." Seriously how often are you needing this "power" Lets compare my civic vs my Saturn since they are both in the same class. 127hp vs 126 HP. Most of the time I shift the Civic at 4k and the Saturn a 3k. Once again, is it that bad to wait .00005 sec for the RPM to get up another 1K on the civic? The only time you need this "power" is passing or getting higher speed. Once again, a whole 1 sec to downshift a gear or 2, and if i'm racing from a roll, I will be smart enough to already be in the right gear before both cars takesoff, so there's no waiting for the RPM to come up, it will already be there when the gear is selected.

[ArcticGT]

2006 Si finishes first and second in first competition at 25 hour race endurance race.
http://www.hondanews.com/CatID2000?m...69617&mime=asc

[bigbenSC]

I work at the R&D center where the two cars were prepared (along with the TL they mention) and it is remarkable just how stock the cars were. Seriously, the modifications could be done to any Si for under $1500. Shows how good the new platform is. It makes me wonder what the next RSX will be like. It's developed in Japan so I don't know anything about it.

[ArcticGT]

Originally Posted by bigbengt67

I work at the R&D center where the two cars were prepared

My instructor at Gingerman this past October works at the R&D center as well, I can not remember his name. He had Honda Americas Race S2000 at the track. I was able to get a session in it, man that think was fast in the corners, only work done on that car was strut bars, wheels, tires, and brakes I believe. Nothing on the engine.

[Mike3800]

Originally Posted by Vintalage

You mentioned the GTO. You do realize that is a larger engine?

No, I thought it was a 4cyl.

Point is made. The statment "high end peak power is better for passing" isn't really true, there are too many variables for that to be true in most situations.

Do you realize that?

[Vintalage]

Originally Posted by Mike3800

No, I thought it was a 4cyl.

Point is made. The statment "high end peak power is better for passing" isn't really true, there are too many variables for that to be true in most situations.

Do you realize that?

Read my last post for an answer. Also, view Silver02EX's post.

[Mike3800]

Originally Posted by Silver02EX

I'll take my Honda for example, if i select the right gear when I want to pass, i'll already be in my powerband 4,300+ The only time I have to wait for my RPM to get high is from a stop, but you said from a roll. I never recall having to "wait" for my RPM to get high enough.

Then you must have a 12-speed manual and are in the right RPM range all the time. You never are in the situation where you are accelerating normally and are already going too fast to shift down one or 2 gears.

Originally Posted by Silver02EX

The driver just have to select the right gear. You're probably thinking "well with the GTO you don't have to down shift,

I never thought that. Just when you downshift, the power is there regardless of speed and RPM's.

Originally Posted by Silver02EX

all you have to do is push the gas from a roll." I don't think it's that bad to wait a whole 1 second to drop 2 gears for a Honda to be in it's power band.

That would be impressive if it were geared so well that you could always just do that.

Originally Posted by Silver02EX

Some people just love the idea of having a high redline. I love the saying "oh you always have to rev up a Honda/Acura to get any power." Seriously how often are you needing this "power"

All the time for me. I like passing power, and off the line power. I like holding back moded Civic EX's from passing me after they already started.

Originally Posted by Silver02EX

Lets compare my civic vs my Saturn since they are both in the same class. 127hp vs 126 HP. Most of the time I shift the Civic at 4k and the Saturn a 3k. Once again, is it that bad to wait .00005 sec for the RPM to get up another 1K on the civic? The only time you need this "power" is passing or getting higher speed. Once again, a whole 1 sec to downshift a gear or 2, and if i'm racing from a roll, I will be smart enough to already be in the right gear before both cars takesoff, so there's no waiting for the RPM to come up, it will already be there when the gear is selected.

Not always true. My other car is a 5-speed and has a relativley flat (even if it is weak) torqueband, and the gears are close, 5th gear isn't even an overdrive. Even with this setup, you can be stuck in a gear going to fast in that gear to downshift and not in the sweet spot yet.

[atc3434]

SE gearing has the problem Mike is talking about, especially with stock shiftpoints. If your going like 32mph+, your going to fast for the PCM to go into 1st on its own, but second is total garbage there, you at maybe 3,000rpms, and in a gear that pulls over 90 at the redline, you've got a ways to go before the power is really there. Same thing happens on the highway, if your at like 70+mph, you're only going to get third, which is good for 140+, and doesn't start pulling until 90mph. DHP lets me into first until about 36mph, and with manuel shifting, I can really go for it any speed under 40, just make sure your on the power already when the downshift comes. Gear pulls to 49mph with DHP, and at 50mph, second is starting to pull. Same with 70mph situations, I can safely grab 2nd even at almost 80mph, and pull it to 90, and then get into third where there is actually enough power. These gears with a motor with much weaker torque, ie a K20, which has my HP at least, but nowhere near my torque, would be a nightmare. And therefore, imaginably, my 3400 with the gearing of a k20's tranny would be balls out awesome.