3500 Top End Swap Complete

[gectek]

1. have u found any time to make it to a dyno yet, or are you still working on the programming. i am not trying to be one of the guys who hounds for dyno #s, but sometimes the butt dyno gets out of calibration...especially over thanksgiving.... or do you have any other real life way of measuring the overall output of the new setup vs the old 3400 heads, etc. ?

2. Im looking at either doing this same swap, or just going milled stage 2 heads from either millzy or 60*, using a stage 1 millzy cam with ss headers, downpipe and borla exhaust. Still have a few doubts about flow and cc design making up for the loss in compression.

3. so even milled at .020, the cr still came out to about 9.1xx?

[LoboMan7409]

that looks amazing

[Vegeta]

I would get a regrind before I used a stage 1 cam. Stage 2 cam is the only one from milzy I would get. Still, I wouldn't run a steel cam with an iron oil pump drive gear.

What doubts do you have about flow and CC design vs compression?

[gectek]

what cam would i regrind? and also i still want good driveability. thats why i was lookin at stage 1 cam and not 2. running prmium fuel with me is ok, and tuning will prob take a while, but with everyones help i could get it done also. i know i prob wont get both performance and driveability, but id like to have a balance between the two. i havent heard much on the stage 2 cam, i know the stage 1 has big gains over stock (.489/.492” valve lift 209/213 duration 109 IC 110 LSA) and stock being somewhere close to .439, thats a significant difference. i dont know what the stage 2 is, but i just dont wanna go too aggressive right now.


i doubt the flow over cr because it just always seems like when you drop compression, unless you are s/c or turboing it, the power drops, and at almost .5 points of compression seems like alot, even though the design may be better, it still has a difference in power output. we all know that everything in theory is just that, that is why i really want to see some numbers first to make my desicion on that. and i mean either dyno, or track, because flow charts say alot, but real world is what i want

this is why i am torn between the 3500 top end swap and the 3400 ported heads. i like the way 01GAGT's top end looks, very radical from stock, but i dont know if its for me.

[O1GAGT]

Originally Posted by gectek

1. have u found any time to make it to a dyno yet, or are you still working on the programming. i am not trying to be one of the guys who hounds for dyno #s, but sometimes the butt dyno gets out of calibration...especially over thanksgiving.... or do you have any other real life way of measuring the overall output of the new setup vs the old 3400 heads, etc. ?

2. Im looking at either doing this same swap, or just going milled stage 2 heads from either millzy or 60*, using a stage 1 millzy cam with ss headers, downpipe and borla exhaust. Still have a few doubts about flow and cc design making up for the loss in compression.

3. so even milled at .020, the cr still came out to about 9.1xx?

1. No, I haven't had time to get back to the dyno, and I realize it has almost been a year. My internship and finishing my senior year of college has been kicking my ass. Also DHP just released the fix for the VE table, so my tune has officially been put back to square one, but it will be worth it.

2. The minimal loss in compression with the 3500 heads is more than made up for by the design and better flow characteristics.
I found several calculators and all confirmed that the 0.5 drop in CR would decrease power by 1% which will be 2 to 2.5 HP. The 3500 heads more than make up for the 2 HP difference.

3. That is correct.

[gectek]

so what does the MPG say...still around 30 some? did you have any port work at all besides removing the casting marks on the heads?

also are those the ls6 springs? are you looking at a diff cam with this setup or regrind?

[Vegeta]

I did not port the manifolds nor really do anything to the heads other than clean up work. Without doing research, it didn't make sense to guess on it. I am sure with just porting the manifolds, the power will be noticably better.

LS6 springs, stock 3500 valves, stock cam. I dunno what his plans are on the cam.

Has anyone just done the 3500 plenum swap on a 3400 without swapping out the LIM and UIM?

[Sprucegagt]

Look here. It has been done plenty of times.

http://www.60degreev6.com

[coupe]

Originally Posted by 02andahalfgt

Not wrong according to their website, like I said, cuz it doesn't mention calling them and most people want a flex pipe. But thanks anyway.

Originally Posted by AaronGTR

You are correct. According to their site 3400 headers w/flex pipe is $514.60. Add a high flow cat and it's $717.05. At the bottom it says to add an "H" at the end of the part number for ceramic coating which is another $150. That would make a set of coated S&S headers w/flexpipe $664.60. Don't know what you're looking at coupe but you're wrong this time.

The flex alone is $100.
So, subtract the $100.
Then add $150 for the coating.
Thats $564. I was off by $64.

And yes you do have to call them to order just the headers by themselves. They dont offer just the headers on their site.

BTW i got my stainless flex for $20.

[timberwoof]

If you want to buy just the headers, you can go to a muffler shop and buy the rest for alot cheaper than what they are offering. I've seen high flo cats for under $100. But if you have the hookup and can do most of the work some shops will charge you for just using their equipment. All I need is a lift and welder, and I can do the rest, Oh and a pipe bender.

[AaronGTR]

Originally Posted by 01monte

Has anyone just done the 3500 plenum swap on a 3400 without swapping out the LIM and UIM?

The UIM is the plenum. Know your terminology. You can swap the 3500 upper intake manifold (UIM) onto the 3400 lower intake manifold, but you can't swap the 3500 LIM onto 3400 heads. You have to use the 3500 heads/LIM/UIM all together, or just the 3500 UIM.

[izayn]

Let me ask the one question that no one has seemed to asked OR maybe I read over it.
Just for the swap (parts only including cpu and new wire harness?)
HOW MUCH $$$$?

3 days is nice also considering that you don't even need to pull the engine to do the swap

[gectek]

here it is, back for the first time
3500 top end swap
http://60degreev6.com/store/index.ph...d&productId=59

[Sprucegagt]

Originally Posted by izayn

Let me ask the one question that no one has seemed to asked OR maybe I read over it.
Just for the swap (parts only including cpu and new wire harness?)
HOW MUCH $$$$?

3 days is nice also considering that you don't even need to pull the engine to do the swap

Just an FYI. But you don't need a new harness or PCM for the top end swap.

[gectek]

just possibly an extended ECT sensor harness, unless you want to tap a hole for it. good tuner for the added flow and...viola top end swap complete
if you use the 3500 uim, then you need to use either the diff spr bracket or the an fittings or have the 3500 clearanced to fit the 3400 fpr.

[lastyear4gt]

This seems like a very costly and time consuming mod for very little results IMO.

[Vegeta]

Results? I haven't seen any dyno sheets yet.

[Vegeta]

FYI, the stock 3500 heads outflow milzy's stage 2 3400 heads on the exhaust side to .300 lift and the intake side to .400 lift (using only his numbers for comparison). We don't have his cc measurements on the ports but the exhaust is going to be bigger (less velocity) and the intake side is most likely opened up a lot for the extra air at the peak lifts.

Compare pricing. Thats bone stock 3500.

Compare with the manifolds on and its not even fair.

[gectek]

all you have to do is ask 01gagt if he thinks it was worth it, i have yet to see a properly calibrated butt dyno, but thats all we got for noe