TOG Headers Installed (Plus dyno results!) - Page 6

GTManiac · 08-29-2002, 05:10 PM

I'll have some of your avatar.

Vegeta · 08-29-2002, 05:14 PM

Glad I got that flowbench

Oversize valves might actually be a problem with the head design. How about we just remove the valve seats and use larger valve seats and seat the valve closer to the edge and radius port from there.

GTManiac · 08-29-2002, 05:31 PM

you guys absolutely amaze me with this wealth of knowledge you spout everyday. (SERIOUSLY) I mean I can get the general idea and understand the point you're making, but the way you guys get so technical with all of this stuff is outstanding and makes it interesting to hear about modding an engine. I stand in awe.

(This is NOT a mock, I'm serious. There's some of us who just don't get that involved and some of you who just dive right in. Props to you people.)

mfuller · 08-29-2002, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vegeta
Glad I got that flowbench Oversize valves might actually be a problem with the head design. How about we just remove the valve seats and use larger valve seats and seat the valve closer to the edge and radius port from there.

I suppose that's a possibility. In lieu of that, John is looking at modifying LS1 rocker arms to gain a bit more valve lift....regardless, I may have to hunt down a set of LA1 heads for you to play with.

Vegeta · 08-29-2002, 05:51 PM

I have a set of 94 3100 heads at the machine chop getting cleaned right now. They have a 3 angle valve job done already though so if you can find me a set of 3400 heads I can do a comparison of stock vs valve job. All stock heads are different though from the castings. From looking at the 3100 heads, the one exhaust bowl has a ridge in it the rest do not. Not good at all.

It will be a few weeks before i have everything for my flowbench. I have decided to use my spare 3.4 DOHC block for a valve shroud since other fixtures are used to emulate the cylinder wall anyway

Can't beat the real thing.

aleroboy · 08-29-2002, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vegeta
I have a set of 94 3100 heads at the machine chop getting cleaned right now. They have a 3 angle valve job done already though so if you can find me a set of 3400 heads I can do a comparison of stock vs valve job. All stock heads are different though from the castings. From looking at the 3100 heads, the one exhaust bowl has a ridge in it the rest do not. Not good at all.

It will be a few weeks before i have everything for my flowbench. I have decided to use my spare 3.4 DOHC block for a valve shroud since other fixtures are used to emulate the cylinder wall anyway Can't beat the real thing.

I'll have a set of 3400 heads soon from a minivan. actually I'll have the whole motor

Vegeta · 08-29-2002, 07:44 PM

If you want to send me the top half, or even sell it let me know. I want to get some flow numbers from a 3100 setup and a 3400 setup just for curiosity sake. We could possibly equate the flow difference to the stock power ratings. Then if someone has their manifolds extrude honed I would like to compare those as well.

Some people call me ignorant, but im one researching mofo!

aleroboy · 08-29-2002, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vegeta
If you want to send me the top half, or even sell it let me know. I want to get some flow numbers from a 3100 setup and a 3400 setup just for curiosity sake. We could possibly equate the flow difference to the stock power ratings. Then if someone has their manifolds extrude honed I would like to compare those as well.

Some people call me ignorant, but im one researching mofo!

You can borrow it but I'm not sellin.

I'm going to get the heads ported locally so I'd like to see before and after.
Also would you mind flow benching the TB's?
I'd like to see how much more the 62mm Tb flows.

Vegeta · 08-29-2002, 07:57 PM

That was another plan of mine with the TBs. Yeah, I can flowbench but i have no idea what I would charge cause I dont know how involved it will be. I know its not a fast process. I can also to flow matching since I have everything needed to port,just no valve jobs from me.

aleroboy · 08-29-2002, 08:08 PM

I just wnat to know stock numbers.
The guy doing the heads has a bench and has been porting for over 20 years. but I'll sned you the heads when I get them for your personal resurch.

jaketuff · 08-29-2002, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by aleroboy
...20 years. but I'll sne doyu the heads when I get them for your personal resurch.

Someone's tired!!!

JOUT

aleroboy · 08-29-2002, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaketuff

Someone's tired!!!

JOUT

No dislexic

Vegeta · 08-29-2002, 08:44 PM

I still want the sources for the variable length and diameter of the pipe. From what I have heard (listened to the headersbyed tape today), length and diameter serve different functions and you cannot substitute in one area for the other. Im going to ask ed himself about it as well, but i want to know more from this theory.

aleroboy · 08-29-2002, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vegeta
I still want the sources for the variable length and diameter of the pipe. From what I have heard (listened to the headersbyed tape today), length and diameter serve different functions and you cannot substitute in one area for the other. Im going to ask ed himself about it as well, but i want to know more from this theory.

You could always call Duane.

I'm sure he could explain the theory.

Vegeta · 08-30-2002, 12:38 AM

im not talking to a company, i dont trust companies whose motivations are to sell their product instead of selling quality info (rare but they do exist). If its true ill find out from a reliable source.

bszopi · 08-30-2002, 08:51 AM

To the guy that is amazed how some of us can spout out technical info all day long... that's what happens when you get older.

I've been working on cars for 18 years now (helped tear apart and rebuild a VW Bug when I was 9), and I've been involved in car audio for 13 years. I also rebuilt my first engine when I was 17. But anyways....

To get back on topic some, if anyone wants some good header readings, check out Burns Stainless . Most of it deals with race car header design, but there is still some good theory behind it all.

aleroboy · 08-30-2002, 03:07 PM

well the numbers speak for themselvs but just incase it's hard to see.
I got 174.1hp and 184.5 torque.

Before headers I dynoed at 156.5hp and 175.9 tq.
also they last time I dynoed it was 40 degrees cooler.
there is no formula tha tthey dyno guy kenw of that would say how many hp the Temp difference cost me. but his guess was 5 to 10.

I'm now at 217.7hp and 230.7 torque at the crank.

the really cool thing is how the torque doens't drop as fast now.
well enough tlk here is the sheet

Rba007 · 08-30-2002, 03:39 PM

Very Nice!

mfuller · 08-30-2002, 04:01 PM

Okay, I'm sold.

18HP at the wheels is always a good thing.

You'll have my order soon.

Sternie · 08-30-2002, 04:13 PM

Awesome! I"m glad to see you proved your point over the whole header argument. I just decided to keep my mouth shut on the whole thread and wait for these results. I'm very impressed. Maybe I'll have to order these this spring.

Tony

08-29-2002, 05:10 PM	#101
GTManiac GDC is here Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Sterling Heights, MI Age: 40 Posts: 439 Vehicle: Yo	speaking of sharing I'll have some of your avatar.

08-29-2002, 05:14 PM	#102
Vegeta WOT-Tech AKA: Ben Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Indiana Age: 42 Posts: 1,089 Vehicle: 1999 Alero	Glad I got that flowbench Oversize valves might actually be a problem with the head design. How about we just remove the valve seats and use larger valve seats and seat the valve closer to the edge and radius port from there. __________________ Ben Wide Open Throttle Technologies 60DegreeV6.com

08-29-2002, 05:51 PM	#105
Vegeta WOT-Tech AKA: Ben Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Indiana Age: 42 Posts: 1,089 Vehicle: 1999 Alero	I have a set of 94 3100 heads at the machine chop getting cleaned right now. They have a 3 angle valve job done already though so if you can find me a set of 3400 heads I can do a comparison of stock vs valve job. All stock heads are different though from the castings. From looking at the 3100 heads, the one exhaust bowl has a ridge in it the rest do not. Not good at all. It will be a few weeks before i have everything for my flowbench. I have decided to use my spare 3.4 DOHC block for a valve shroud since other fixtures are used to emulate the cylinder wall anyway Can't beat the real thing. __________________ Ben Wide Open Throttle Technologies 60DegreeV6.com

08-29-2002, 07:44 PM	#107
Vegeta WOT-Tech AKA: Ben Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Indiana Age: 42 Posts: 1,089 Vehicle: 1999 Alero	If you want to send me the top half, or even sell it let me know. I want to get some flow numbers from a 3100 setup and a 3400 setup just for curiosity sake. We could possibly equate the flow difference to the stock power ratings. Then if someone has their manifolds extrude honed I would like to compare those as well. Some people call me ignorant, but im one researching mofo! __________________ Ben Wide Open Throttle Technologies 60DegreeV6.com

08-29-2002, 07:57 PM	#109
Vegeta WOT-Tech AKA: Ben Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Indiana Age: 42 Posts: 1,089 Vehicle: 1999 Alero	That was another plan of mine with the TBs. Yeah, I can flowbench but i have no idea what I would charge cause I dont know how involved it will be. I know its not a fast process. I can also to flow matching since I have everything needed to port,just no valve jobs from me. __________________ Ben Wide Open Throttle Technologies 60DegreeV6.com

08-29-2002, 05:31 PM	#103
GTManiac GDC is here Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Sterling Heights, MI Age: 40 Posts: 439 Vehicle: Yo	you guys absolutely amaze me with this wealth of knowledge you spout everyday. (SERIOUSLY) I mean I can get the general idea and understand the point you're making, but the way you guys get so technical with all of this stuff is outstanding and makes it interesting to hear about modding an engine. I stand in awe. (This is NOT a mock, I'm serious. There's some of us who just don't get that involved and some of you who just dive right in. Props to you people.)

08-29-2002, 08:08 PM	#110
aleroboy 340+ hp Club Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Colorado springs Age: 39 Posts: 1,854 Vehicle: 2001 Alero GLS coupe	I just wnat to know stock numbers. The guy doing the heads has a bench and has been porting for over 20 years. but I'll sned you the heads when I get them for your personal resurch. Last edited by aleroboy; 08-29-2002 at 08:16 PM.

08-29-2002, 08:44 PM	#113
Vegeta WOT-Tech AKA: Ben Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Indiana Age: 42 Posts: 1,089 Vehicle: 1999 Alero	I still want the sources for the variable length and diameter of the pipe. From what I have heard (listened to the headersbyed tape today), length and diameter serve different functions and you cannot substitute in one area for the other. Im going to ask ed himself about it as well, but i want to know more from this theory. __________________ Ben Wide Open Throttle Technologies 60DegreeV6.com

08-30-2002, 12:38 AM	#115
Vegeta WOT-Tech AKA: Ben Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Indiana Age: 42 Posts: 1,089 Vehicle: 1999 Alero	im not talking to a company, i dont trust companies whose motivations are to sell their product instead of selling quality info (rare but they do exist). If its true ill find out from a reliable source. __________________ Ben Wide Open Throttle Technologies 60DegreeV6.com

08-30-2002, 08:51 AM	#116
bszopi User account under probation AKA: Brad Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Rogers, AR Age: 46 Posts: 1,391 Vehicle: 1989 Ford Mustang	To the guy that is amazed how some of us can spout out technical info all day long... that's what happens when you get older. I've been working on cars for 18 years now (helped tear apart and rebuild a VW Bug when I was 9), and I've been involved in car audio for 13 years. I also rebuilt my first engine when I was 17. But anyways.... To get back on topic some, if anyone wants some good header readings, check out Burns Stainless . Most of it deals with race car header design, but there is still some good theory behind it all.

08-30-2002, 03:07 PM	#117
aleroboy 340+ hp Club Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Colorado springs Age: 39 Posts: 1,854 Vehicle: 2001 Alero GLS coupe	TOG dyno results well the numbers speak for themselvs but just incase it's hard to see. I got 174.1hp and 184.5 torque. Before headers I dynoed at 156.5hp and 175.9 tq. also they last time I dynoed it was 40 degrees cooler. there is no formula tha tthey dyno guy kenw of that would say how many hp the Temp difference cost me. but his guess was 5 to 10. I'm now at 217.7hp and 230.7 torque at the crank. the really cool thing is how the torque doens't drop as fast now. well enough tlk here is the sheet Attached Thumbnails Last edited by aleroboy; 08-30-2002 at 03:09 PM.

08-30-2002, 03:39 PM	#118
Rba007 GAGT Oldie AKA: Dave Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: N. Muskegon MI Age: 38 Posts: 2,444 Vehicle: 04 Grand Prix GT	Very Nice! __________________ Dave's Sexy Ride "Sul3LiME883: i'm drunk tho. i'd throw myself at a penis right now, i bet." "When you step over the line, your nuts are mine" "ArcticSun GT: u do smell dave, smell like awesomeness"

08-30-2002, 04:01 PM	#119
mfuller Mr. Common Sense AKA: Matt Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Loves Park, IL USA Age: 47 Posts: 2,031 Vehicle: 2000 Alero GLS sedan	Okay, I'm sold. 18HP at the wheels is always a good thing. You'll have my order soon. __________________ Matt - Resident brake and suspension guru Also, your friendly Performance and Technical Moderator *Please don't tailgate, text and drive, drink and drive, or otherwise act like an asshat.* Questioning if it will ever run again.....

08-30-2002, 04:13 PM	#120
Sternie Back-to-Back Champs! Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Duluth/Minneapolis, MN Age: 37 Posts: 247 Vehicle: 2000 Grand Am GT	Awesome! I"m glad to see you proved your point over the whole header argument. I just decided to keep my mouth shut on the whole thread and wait for these results. I'm very impressed. Maybe I'll have to order these this spring. Tony

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