TOG Headers Installed (Plus dyno results!) - Page 7

GTManiac · 08-30-2002, 05:01 PM

I had a SNEAKY suspicion. WTG John. You'll be seeing a check from me in a week or so.

08-30-2002, 05:08 PM

Enough said.

Watch4MyBu · 08-30-2002, 05:10 PM

Those are some sweet results. I am still going to wait for S and S headers to see what the deal is with them and the make an educated decision

homegrown · 08-30-2002, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vegeta
I still want the sources for the variable length and diameter of the pipe. From what I have heard (listened to the headersbyed tape today), length and diameter serve different functions and you cannot substitute in one area for the other. Im going to ask ed himself about it as well, but i want to know more from this theory.

If you want to know the theory behind how the velocity of the gas changes with diameter and length. A fluid dynamics book would be a place to start, something college level. I have a few on my shelf and refer to them all the time.

For Theory on how to design exhaust stuff, I have a few books that I use: Design and Simulation of 4 Stroke Engines and Scientific Design of Exhaust and Intake systems. The first is pretty heavy reading, Differential Equations and such, probably Graduate to PHD level. The other is based more on a Physics/Wave theory, its a little easier to understand. There are also some good engine design books out there, John Heywood from MIT wrote a great book, I use it all the time.

As far as what works and what doesn't...every engine is different, most header companies have guidelines they work with because they have done testing and development on many engines. the only way to maximize an engines is to test, test, test. There is some software that will get pretty damn close, I will be playing with some new software next week that does a complete engine simulation and can optimize intake, exhaust and camshaft profiles among other things, but it is very expensive, more than your car is worth (yes...a one year license is $30,000). So i guess if you are willing to build, test, and rebuild and test...and repeat until you have maximized your engine, go for it.

As for motorcycle engines being different from car engines, thats a misunderstanding, the same theory used in F1 racing (18,000 RPM engines) is used in motorcycles (12,000-15,000 RPM) is used in production cars (6,000 RPM) and can be used on your lawn mower (3500 RPM)

Later

Homegrown

Sorry_Officer · 08-30-2002, 06:04 PM

Already ordered........hopefully I am one of the first so I do not have to wait. My girlfriend charged them for me, talk about a aniversary present...........

aleroboy · 08-30-2002, 11:29 PM

Thanks for all the complements.
I should be back at the dyno saturday since their O2 sensor wasn't working right.

I'm trying do drag a friend with digital video cam. so hopfully I can make you guys really drool!

aleroboy · 08-31-2002, 01:54 PM

Ok my friend didn;t show up intime today to do the runs but I gained a little more hp and a little more torque!

My new best numbers are 175.4hp and 185.7 torque.
up from 174.1hp and 184.5 torque yesterday.
no changes. my car shows to be running lean after the cat.
So I'm installing a rign for them to mount the wide band O2 before the cat and I'll be back at the dyno soon. I'm hoping my car isn't running that lean. I was told at the dyno this might be because I have no MAF screen. we'll see.

So my new crank numbers are
219.2HP and 232TQ.

Sternie · 08-31-2002, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by aleroboy
So my new at the wheels numbers are
219.2HP and 232TQ.

You mean at the crank?

aleroboy · 08-31-2002, 02:21 PM

Uh yea sorry
long day

homegrown · 08-31-2002, 02:35 PM

Typically, when the O2 is used after the cat, the numbers will come out to be a little lean because of the reactions going on in the cat. there is not real 'fudge factor' to know exactly what your A/F ratio is before the cat. Thats why its best before the cat.

Nice HP numbers man...

Homegrown

aleroboy · 08-31-2002, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by homegrown
Typically, when the O2 is used after the cat, the numbers will come out to be a little lean because of the reactions going on in the cat. there is not real 'fudge factor' to know exactly what your A/F ratio is before the cat. Thats why its best before the cat.

Nice HP numbers man...

Homegrown

Yea this is why defore I get scared I decided to set it up where they can plug in before the cat.

jaketuff · 08-31-2002, 06:37 PM

YES! Great job there John, even though they may not be optimal in performance they give a good solid gain - 18HP and torque! Good stuff, plus the car probably will take a while to adjust and relinquish some more HP!

Pat

aleroboy · 08-31-2002, 07:03 PM

I put on about 500 miles before dynoing. this i'm told is enough time for the car to adjust.
But went back a day later and had one more hp.
I wish my car gained a hp everyday.

GTManiac · 08-31-2002, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by aleroboy
I wish my car gained a hp everyday.

don't we all...

Doug · 09-01-2002, 03:02 PM

Nice numbers... btw you won't get any more hp when its cooler. The numbers are SAE corrected. But impressive none the less

aleroboy · 09-01-2002, 03:22 PM

Temp doesn't play a factor in their correction just barometric pressure. So I guess that would account for most.

Doug · 09-01-2002, 03:36 PM

well it should. You can find the SAE correction equation here

http://rshelq.home.sprynet.com/cf.htm

homegrown · 09-01-2002, 08:09 PM

Basically you are correcting for the density of air. Density = Pressure / R * Temp. So temp and pressure both play a role in the horsepower correction. the SAE correction formula corrects the horsepower back to STP, or standard pressure and temperature. If you wanted to compair horsepower numbers from two different runs, you would have to know the baro pressure and temp for both runs, then do a ratio of the density of air to figure out a correction factor. This will also work for altitude changes.

later

Homegrown

Schweppe23 · 09-11-2002, 08:30 AM

Nice numbers, can't wait to see the 1/4 mile times

Pat Lavanty

black99gt · 09-11-2002, 08:39 AM

Awsome.

A REAL Power Mod to the GA

Wow... Nice.

I like'm 18whp

How much again?

Edit: Dyno and Times are a different story tho. Although this MAY provide 18whp, this might only make .1-.3tenths off at the track.

Cant wait to see the track results.

08-30-2002, 06:04 PM	#125
Sorry_Officer Bouncy, Bouncy.... Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Milwaukee, WI Age: 41 Posts: 633 Vehicle: 98' Civic CTR CX	Already ordered........hopefully I am one of the first so I do not have to wait. My girlfriend charged them for me, talk about a aniversary present........... __________________ 1998 Honda Civic Cx (B16B) 1991 Acura Integra LS (B18a LS/Vtec) 2005 Harley Davidson Softail Duece

08-31-2002, 01:54 PM	#127
aleroboy 340+ hp Club Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Colorado springs Age: 39 Posts: 1,854 Vehicle: 2001 Alero GLS coupe	Ok my friend didn;t show up intime today to do the runs but I gained a little more hp and a little more torque! My new best numbers are 175.4hp and 185.7 torque. up from 174.1hp and 184.5 torque yesterday. no changes. my car shows to be running lean after the cat. So I'm installing a rign for them to mount the wide band O2 before the cat and I'll be back at the dyno soon. I'm hoping my car isn't running that lean. I was told at the dyno this might be because I have no MAF screen. we'll see. So my new crank numbers are 219.2HP and 232TQ. Last edited by aleroboy; 08-31-2002 at 02:21 PM.

08-31-2002, 02:35 PM	#130
homegrown GAGT - Member AKA: David McCormick Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Age: 41 Posts: 126 Vehicle: 2001 Olds ALero GLS	Typically, when the O2 is used after the cat, the numbers will come out to be a little lean because of the reactions going on in the cat. there is not real 'fudge factor' to know exactly what your A/F ratio is before the cat. Thats why its best before the cat. Nice HP numbers man... Homegrown __________________ 2001 Olds Turbo Alero

08-31-2002, 06:37 PM	#132
jaketuff GAGT - Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Westchester, NY Age: 43 Posts: 2,093 Vehicle: 2000 Grand Am GT Coupe	YES! Great job there John, even though they may not be optimal in performance they give a good solid gain - 18HP and torque! Good stuff, plus the car probably will take a while to adjust and relinquish some more HP! Pat __________________ 2000 Pontiac Grand Am GT Coupe Magnacharger SC February 2003 N-body of the Month 14.34 @ 93.38MPH Eaton SC, No ported heads, No Juice! -RETIRED March 2010 w/165k- 2013 Mercedes ML350 !ACHTUNG! Es ist Shtock 2005 Infiniti G35 Coupe : CAI, Manifold Spacer 2004 Pontiac GTO : Mild Mods, and Tuned ... 13.1 @ 107.5 PB 1992 Mustang LX : TT, 351, IC, Alky, Gears - 400HP/500lbs-ft ... MONSTER 1991 Mustang GT : GT40 H/I, Bullitt Wheels, New Paint

09-01-2002, 08:09 PM	#138
homegrown GAGT - Member AKA: David McCormick Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Age: 41 Posts: 126 Vehicle: 2001 Olds ALero GLS	Basically you are correcting for the density of air. Density = Pressure / R * Temp. So temp and pressure both play a role in the horsepower correction. the SAE correction formula corrects the horsepower back to STP, or standard pressure and temperature. If you wanted to compair horsepower numbers from two different runs, you would have to know the baro pressure and temp for both runs, then do a ratio of the density of air to figure out a correction factor. This will also work for altitude changes. later Homegrown __________________ 2001 Olds Turbo Alero

08-30-2002, 05:01 PM	#121
GTManiac GDC is here Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Sterling Heights, MI Age: 40 Posts: 439 Vehicle: Yo	I had a SNEAKY suspicion. WTG John. You'll be seeing a check from me in a week or so.

08-30-2002, 05:08 PM	#122
PontiacPower Guest Posts: n/a	Enough said.

08-30-2002, 05:10 PM	#123
Watch4MyBu Lost Malibu Owner Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: New Jersey Age: 42 Posts: 493 Vehicle: 1998 Chevy Malibu	Those are some sweet results. I am still going to wait for S and S headers to see what the deal is with them and the make an educated decision

08-30-2002, 11:29 PM	#126
aleroboy 340+ hp Club Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Colorado springs Age: 39 Posts: 1,854 Vehicle: 2001 Alero GLS coupe	Thanks for all the complements. I should be back at the dyno saturday since their O2 sensor wasn't working right. I'm trying do drag a friend with digital video cam. so hopfully I can make you guys really drool!

08-31-2002, 02:21 PM	#129
aleroboy 340+ hp Club Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Colorado springs Age: 39 Posts: 1,854 Vehicle: 2001 Alero GLS coupe	Uh yea sorry long day

08-31-2002, 07:03 PM	#133
aleroboy 340+ hp Club Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Colorado springs Age: 39 Posts: 1,854 Vehicle: 2001 Alero GLS coupe	I put on about 500 miles before dynoing. this i'm told is enough time for the car to adjust. But went back a day later and had one more hp. I wish my car gained a hp everyday.

09-01-2002, 03:02 PM	#135
Doug Hairdryer Power Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Dublin, OH Age: 36 Posts: 623 Vehicle: 2000 SE-T	Nice numbers... btw you won't get any more hp when its cooler. The numbers are SAE corrected. But impressive none the less

09-01-2002, 03:22 PM	#136
aleroboy 340+ hp Club Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Colorado springs Age: 39 Posts: 1,854 Vehicle: 2001 Alero GLS coupe	Temp doesn't play a factor in their correction just barometric pressure. So I guess that would account for most.

09-01-2002, 03:36 PM	#137
Doug Hairdryer Power Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Dublin, OH Age: 36 Posts: 623 Vehicle: 2000 SE-T	well it should. You can find the SAE correction equation here http://rshelq.home.sprynet.com/cf.htm

09-11-2002, 08:30 AM	#139
Schweppe23 GAGT - Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ohio Age: 41 Posts: 1,549 Vehicle: Pontiac	Nice numbers, can't wait to see the 1/4 mile times Pat Lavanty __________________ First 99+ GAGT to run 14s First E/M (only) GA to run 13s First turbo'D GAGT to run 12s 11's coming soon

09-11-2002, 08:39 AM	#140
black99gt 11sec 4cycl club Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Cleveland and Columbus Ohio Age: 38 Posts: 385 Vehicle: 95 AWD Turbo Talon	Awsome. A REAL Power Mod to the GA Wow... Nice. I like'm 18whp How much again? Edit: Dyno and Times are a different story tho. Although this MAY provide 18whp, this might only make .1-.3tenths off at the track. Cant wait to see the track results. __________________ Red 1995 Eagle Talon AWD Turbo "1G INA 2G" <-- 6bolt motor "anti-crankwalk" FP 3055 turbo, S-AFC, Tial BOV, GM MAFT, Defi boost gauge, TRE egt probe setup, Hallman MBC, 255lph pump, AFPR, 650cc’s, ACT 2600, Dejon Race FMIC, ECU "hacks", Stutterbox, B&M short shifter, K&N filter, shifter bushings, brass tranny shifter busings, Upper strut brace. Mods for 11sec passes… Last edited by black99gt; 09-11-2002 at 08:44 AM.

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