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Old 05-01-2007, 05:51 PM   #1
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Building up...

Alright, assuming I get hired for my second job (working two jobs this summer), I should have the money to break into the 13's.

So I was going to get the MMS stage 2 thing, which I might still do. However, I know on 60degreev6 they have the 3500 top end swap, and I'm assuming that is better than a monsterously ported 3400. Would that be a better investment?

Instead of typing all my questions up, I'll let you all build my car up. What kind of parts can I get from 60degreeV6 that will keep me somewhere near the price range of MMS stage 2 stuff and above the performance? I can go a bit more expensive than the MMS stage 2 stuff so it's not too big of a problem (it will just mean the longer I have to wait... but I'm patient).

As long as the parts include essentially everything the MMS stage 2 stuff does (injectors and obviously gaskets and valve springs and all that), I should be set. Mainly I just want to take advantage of the 3500 top end swap if it's actually that much better!

So far what I'll get done are:
-Custom ported 65mm TB (guy that's gonna be rebuilding my engine can do this)
-S&S headers with Magnaflow hi-flow cat (because andysautosport owes me money, so I can get the cat cheap!)


You can see my sig for all my mods so far that have to do with engine performance. Sorry for the long post, it's hard to get across what I'm looking for

Oh, and I plan to supercharge/turbocharge someday. Meaning like in a year or two (and then of course after getting a stronger transmission, like the GTP tranny) And I have the 3.4L V6 1999 Grand Am SE
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Old 05-01-2007, 06:00 PM   #2
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Just get the 3500 top end swap kit off of 60*v6 with the street level porting and talk to ben about a cam for your specific application and custom length pushrods. Since you plan on getting headers and a ported TB you would have one badass N/A GAGT. Oh yeah, and get it tuned!
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Old 05-01-2007, 06:04 PM   #3
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moved to correct section
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Old 05-01-2007, 06:20 PM   #4
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Oh did not see this section sorry

Guy is rebuilding my engine, tuning my car, and putting all these parts in for me, as I don't have all the tools or time to do it myself. He's charging an awesome price for it as well.

Alright so once I get that stuff... wont I need bigger injectors? The PCM can be tuned so that wont really matter much... I can buy a seperate Tstat... and I suppose I can purchase ported UIM/LIM as well. Or just have the guy in town here do it. Both would work.

Sound good? Thanks for the response by the way I definitely plan to have one of the fastest GASE's around (GT's will never see it coming )
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Old 05-01-2007, 06:30 PM   #5
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The 3500 top swap kit comes with ported upper/lower intakes already so you dont need to worry about that. I would imagine you will need larger injectors as well. You cant just swap injectors though, the pcm needs to be tuned for them. Check out the MP racing PCM group buy thats going on right now. You can get a custom tuned pcm for a pretty good price even though you wont need it till all that stuff is put on.
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Old 05-01-2007, 06:34 PM   #6
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I think the person doing my engine stuff can tune my PCM... I'll have to ask him though. If not I'll definitely hit that up Thanks!

Think I can hit 13's with all this?
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Old 05-01-2007, 06:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Think I can hit 13's with all this?
With some drag radials and a little luck I dont see why not. I dont think anyone has a "total" N/A build with the 3500 top end yet in a GAGT. xonelith has the fastest N/A time -> 13.991 , and he is running the stage 2 stuff from milzy. Even if it doesnt run 13's you will still have a damn fast GA
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Old 05-01-2007, 06:53 PM   #8
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I doubt *your guy* can tune your GA, highly unlikely.
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Old 05-01-2007, 07:17 PM   #9
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I doubt *your guy* can tune your GA, highly unlikely.
There's a good chance you're right... that's why I ask first
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Old 05-01-2007, 07:33 PM   #10
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I will be finished with my 'full built' 3400 that is going into a grand am in florida in a few days. When its broken in and tuned, im sure you will hear more about it

For boost, you can go either way. NA is 3500 hands down. The level 1 top end swap is for the 3400 upper. I am about done with my full 3500 top end kit, and I will also make a package for a complete with cam and TB setup. For injectors, you need tuning as stated. I am using 28# injectors with an AFPR using AN-6 fittings to up the pressure to 65 psi and make them 33#. For boost, you will want to bigger but if thats not happening now, I would either up the pressure or get new injectors.

From simulations, the 3500 heads/top end are so much better because of the port taper with porting and the minimum area in the head. Im not listing specifics but that is the jist of it. I was going to work on filling in the 3400 intake ports to create this type of situation, but GM did the work for me For boost, I can use the 3400 metal intake gaskets to get more overall flow from the 3400 top end, but it will hurt velocity. Not a factor for boost though. If you are going na now and boost later, the 3500 top end will not disappoint either way.

I don't know how you will port a TB to 65mm but keep us posted on that. You have to sleeve it to get to 62mm. The complete package I am going to offer includes the billet TB, which will be in stock in a month (I hope...fingers crossed )
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Old 05-02-2007, 08:52 AM   #11
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I will be finished with my 'full built' 3400 that is going into a grand am in florida in a few days. When its broken in and tuned, im sure you will hear more about it

For boost, you can go either way. NA is 3500 hands down. The level 1 top end swap is for the 3400 upper. I am about done with my full 3500 top end kit, and I will also make a package for a complete with cam and TB setup. For injectors, you need tuning as stated. I am using 28# injectors with an AFPR using AN-6 fittings to up the pressure to 65 psi and make them 33#. For boost, you will want to bigger but if thats not happening now, I would either up the pressure or get new injectors.

From simulations, the 3500 heads/top end are so much better because of the port taper with porting and the minimum area in the head. Im not listing specifics but that is the jist of it. I was going to work on filling in the 3400 intake ports to create this type of situation, but GM did the work for me For boost, I can use the 3400 metal intake gaskets to get more overall flow from the 3400 top end, but it will hurt velocity. Not a factor for boost though. If you are going na now and boost later, the 3500 top end will not disappoint either way.

I don't know how you will port a TB to 65mm but keep us posted on that. You have to sleeve it to get to 62mm. The complete package I am going to offer includes the billet TB, which will be in stock in a month (I hope...fingers crossed )
I had only asked about 62mm, not 65mm yet. I'll see if he can do it. If not, I'll settle with 62 for now and buy 65 later when I go crazy Maybe. We'll see

Thanks for the input too btw. I have many decisions to make and no money to make them right now haha. We'll see what happens assuming I get my second job!
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Old 05-12-2007, 01:03 AM   #12
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Oh if I planned on doing turbo/supercharger someday, shouldn't I get turbo/supercharger porting? Or will just street porting be fine for now and not even really be a problem later?

Also, since i have a 99... won't I need the rocker arms to go along with the 3500 level 1 swap? And where do I get those (doesn't show up as an option on 60v6)?

Thank ye

I also notice the 3500 kit says stock springs... wouldnt I want to upgrade those as well?
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Old 05-12-2007, 06:02 AM   #13
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Street porting would be fine for boost really. You would get more power with the boost porting with boost, but if you used boost porting on NA, it would hurt your performance compared to street porting. The nice thing about boost is that it will increase performance on the worst manifold and head design so you can't really go wrong:P

I am probably going to redo the swap kit to remove the gaskets and bolts, and just list the parts needed. I want to offer a lot of options including the springs, so once I have everything sorted out, the listing will change. As long as you just talk to me and work anything out though, its not a problem to do whatever you need for your application.

I did flow the current level 1 swap with both 56 and 65mm TB if you want to see the difference. Pretty impressive intake numbers from the whole setup IMO.

http://60degreev6.com/showthread.php...360#post326360

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Old 05-12-2007, 03:44 PM   #14
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I don't really know how to interpret the flow numbers very well but I do know that the larger the better
Have any comparisons to the 3400 and the 3400 ported with the two different TB's? just to compare apples to oranges to clementines to crabapples... or something...

I'll probably shoot you an email when I'm ready to get a price estimate. I want to make sure I don't leave anything out and make sure I can afford it all.

EDIT: Hey I just realized you live in Indiana... badass
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