$50 for 2008 challenge - Page 24

Shock24Z · 08-08-2008, 12:20 AM

Searched and came back with some conflicting reports.

Quote:

ive been boosted for year and a half on my 3400 and its still strong. i am NOT easy on this car at all. made 358 whp on 9 psi BONE STOCK bottom end. they can take detonation...

Quote:

If tuned right it can handle a lot more. I have seen 16psi on them reliably (once he got the head gasket thing figured out).

From a vendor...

Quote:

You can always upgrade the motor, as curtis did. The only boost related negative feedback I have heard is that piston (not sure what the problem is), and the RSM supercharger setup (poorly tuned, ticking time bomb SC shaft setup). Done right, you can boost your 60V6 a good amount without upgrading anything but the valve springs and the tune.

Quote:

I am boost spiking 15 psi and back down to 11-12 psi and have no problems. Good tune though. Increasing boost in the next couple days to 14-15 psi to see what it does.

I also did find a few reports of "I blew my motor at 12psi" ... but only one I saw noting a proper tune.

Sooooo... yea what am I supposed to think?

Its not my call anyways. I'm just stuck with a lame 90*v6

Touche and thank you aaron for having me research further into that.

boost21 · 08-08-2008, 12:47 AM

I dont really feel like getting into this big argument, but does anyone know whatever happened to pat? (Schweppe23) Its like he sold the s/c went turbo then stopped posting.

tejohnson · 08-08-2008, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boost21

I dont really feel like getting into this big argument, but does anyone know whatever happened to pat? (Schweppe23) Its like he sold the s/c went turbo then stopped posting.

He opened another restaurant, think he bought a house, etc, etc. Life.

I have been meaning to give him a call.

tejohnson · 08-08-2008, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shock24Z

Searched and came back with some conflicting reports.

Care to quote the original authors of those comments? As in, who are they, where are they now? What happened to their cars in the longer term? Where are they on the 1/4 mile list? (did they even make it into the 13's or was it all talk?)

To be frank, the internals issue is simple. Detonation. It happens. Regardless if the block is built, it destroys. If there is a failure, the internals make a big difference on how you can bounce back.

I.e., To use my experience as an example, see the video of me and Pat in 2006. My car sounded like a fully auto shotgun going down the track. I wasn't happy, neither was the crank or rod bearings. And the car made it from Norwalk, Oh to 26101. Engine simply cleaned, crank worked, built back, and better be used to set another record

Everything else looked perfect (pistons, rods, cam, & block), even after the carnage.

Now imagine that 15PSI run, while running out of fuel going down the track, on a stock bottom end.

BlackJack · 08-08-2008, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tejohnson

Now imagine that 15PSI run, while running out of fuel going down the track, on a stock bottom end.

some of us don't have to "imagine" a 15psi run starving out on a stock bottom end.....(see post above) LOL

Shock24Z · 08-08-2008, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tejohnson

Care to quote the original authors of those comments? As in, who are they, where are they now? What happened to their cars in the longer term? Where are they on the 1/4 mile list? (did they even make it into the 13's or was it all talk?)

One was ben. The 358whp guy ran a 12.2 in a cavi. One was forcedfirebird who I believe is a memeber on here. The cars they speak of are probably mostly not n-body.

I don't really have time to follow up on those statements at the moment as I should be studying for a calculus test. But after further research, I'm not sure I really need to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tejohnson

To be frank, the internals issue is simple. Detonation. It happens. Regardless if the block is built, it destroys. If there is a failure, the internals make a big difference on how you can bounce back.

Exactly. I'm HOPING the primary cause of failure is detonation as it can be monitored and controlled.

After researching a bit more on the V6Z24 boards I found that they have a number of 3400 turbo builds and information on them

This includes a guy putting down 325whp on a stock bottom end 3400. He had plans to push the stocker further before dropping in a built motor as of may 2008. After I'm cleared by an admin for activation I plan to PM him about it.

Like the 60* boards there were two different opinions on stock pistons (stock rods and crank seemed to be trusted by quite a few).

Those who had less faith in them
example:

Quote:

a stock 3400 piston starts to become a little unreliable you could say at anything over 10 psi.

and those who say otherwise... but to an unknown degree

Quote:

if you have cool intake temps, high enough octane, and a the fuel/spark is tuned you can run a good amount of boost on stock pistons.

If they're anything like 3800 pistons they are complete junk... if you're running extra boost and have KR. But stock 3800 pistons have seen low 9 second passes...and sure you could say they become more 'unreliable' with more boost...

I do take your input seriously but theres a lot of conflicting evidence out there so it's difficult for me to arrive at a solid conclusion.

Calculus test in t-minus 7 hours... time to study

boost21 · 08-08-2008, 09:12 AM

besides adjusting the a/f through tuning, is the only way too keep an eye on everything going to be a wideband?

tejohnson · 08-08-2008, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boost21

besides adjusting the a/f through tuning, is the only way too keep an eye on everything going to be a wideband?

If you want accuracy, yes. Otherwise, you can look at narrowband O2 and knock, but it is quite a bit harder to see what is really going on. The O2 is not quite the most accurate when in PE mode / Open Loop.

SpyhunteR · 08-10-2008, 05:41 PM

winner of the money won't be using a 60* motor.

bszopi · 08-10-2008, 06:43 PM

Someone needs to step up before an NA Cavalier breaks into the 12s...

http://60degreev6.com/forum/showpost...4&postcount=69

Quote:

R/T ... 0.274 (0 tree)
60' ... 1.987
330' ... 5.516
1/8 ET ... 8.446
1/8 MPH ... 84.000
1000' ... 10.951
1/4 ET ... 13.084
1/4 MPH ... 105.480

1991 Cavalier Z24 5 speed; '04 3500-LX9 swap, .539/.549, 288/293 adv roller cam, longtube headers, lots of P&P, Comp 26915 springs, Hybrid lifters (3500/LT1), 75mm TB, true duals, Hooker Aerochamber mufflers. Ostrich 2.0/WMS wideband/1227730

Upshift · 08-10-2008, 08:28 PM

hmm this thread has become extremely interesting as of late and really makes me wish i could join in

.

Problem is though. Where i'm at in canada, fuel prices are give or take close to 4.70$ a gallon, i'll have to do 60 miles of driving a day and college itself is costing me 3 grand a semester. But... my college program will also grand me a Coop summer job for my 4 month summer which will pay up pretty well(I already have a spot guaranteed) so ill have about 5-6 grand spare just with that summers income.

The thing though is i'm wondering if i should go the slow and frugal route and sue it as a down payment for a Nissan versa or put that money into parts to mod my Alero.

And i have so many ideas

. But I know i wont make it in time for this contest, my plan is to simply start a project using what i learn from here, keep people informed about it, and inform people of things i might be able to bring to the table. And, ultimately, see what kind of results i can pull off

But either way, keep debating and giving me new ideas and info :P

gectek · 08-11-2008, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bszopi

Someone needs to step up before an NA Cavalier breaks into the 12s...

http://60degreev6.com/forum/showpost...4&postcount=69

hes my hero....

SpyhunteR · 08-12-2008, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bszopi

Someone needs to step up before an NA Cavalier breaks into the 12s...

http://60degreev6.com/forum/showpost...4&postcount=69

How about an all motor Honda w/ full interior?

tejohnson · 08-12-2008, 07:06 AM

Nope. All electric:

bszopi · 08-12-2008, 09:05 AM

Well, at least I was still talking a GM engine...

SpyhunteR · 08-12-2008, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bszopi

Well, at least I was still talking a GM engine...

manufacturer means nothing to me.

SpyhunteR · 08-12-2008, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tejohnson

Nope. All electric:

That is honestly rediculously bad arse.

Vegeta · 08-12-2008, 04:00 PM

As long as its 4 cylinders, right spy?

SpyhunteR · 08-12-2008, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vegeta

As long as its 4 cylinders, right spy?

Shock24Z · 08-25-2008, 12:37 AM

Quick update on sk8rs build... holset=on. Spool is noticably slower, but we haven't really looked at the exact rpm from a stop at which it hits full boost. Not a big concern at the moment...

Only did a few short first stage shakedown runs... probably quite a few more to come before a serious pull.

Some wastegating issues put the boost around 11psi...MAF values show about 32-33lb/min for the few cells peak boost was touched. The 36lb'ers were near maxing out. KR was between 0 and .4

This data isn't very conclusive by any means but the numbers look good for some power to be made.

If nothing else he can take the claim of having the first and only holset on a grand am. No?

08-10-2008, 05:41 PM	#469
SpyhunteR #1 hater AKA: Rob Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Las Vegas Age: 38 Posts: 4,968 Vehicle: 01' 2.4T GA / 08 TBSS	winner of the money won't be using a 60* motor. __________________ Hey kids going to Vegas? Let me help you help me help you! Shoot me an email or PM for all your Vegas Night Club bottle hallucinations & strip club desires! FACEBOOKFACE! "Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you."

08-12-2008, 07:06 AM	#474
tejohnson Just a hobby... AKA: Todd Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Parkersburg, WV && Philadelphia, PA Age: 45 Posts: 1,717 Vehicle: 2004 GMC Sierra 2500	Nope. All electric: __________________ Regards, Todd E. Johnson SpyhunteR's #1 fan. 99 Grand Am (13.4@108) - Recycled

08-12-2008, 04:00 PM	#478
Vegeta WOT-Tech AKA: Ben Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Indiana Age: 42 Posts: 1,089 Vehicle: 1999 Alero	As long as its 4 cylinders, right spy? __________________ Ben Wide Open Throttle Technologies 60DegreeV6.com

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08-08-2008, 12:47 AM	#462
boost21 GAGT - Senior Member AKA: -_- Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Midwest Posts: 2,766 Vehicle: turbo ls1	I dont really feel like getting into this big argument, but does anyone know whatever happened to pat? (Schweppe23) Its like he sold the s/c went turbo then stopped posting.

08-08-2008, 09:12 AM	#467
boost21 GAGT - Senior Member AKA: -_- Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Midwest Posts: 2,766 Vehicle: turbo ls1	besides adjusting the a/f through tuning, is the only way too keep an eye on everything going to be a wideband?

08-10-2008, 08:28 PM	#471
Upshift GAGT - Member AKA: Justin Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Ottawa Age: 33 Posts: 136 Vehicle: 2003 Alero GL V6	hmm this thread has become extremely interesting as of late and really makes me wish i could join in . Problem is though. Where i'm at in canada, fuel prices are give or take close to 4.70$ a gallon, i'll have to do 60 miles of driving a day and college itself is costing me 3 grand a semester. But... my college program will also grand me a Coop summer job for my 4 month summer which will pay up pretty well(I already have a spot guaranteed) so ill have about 5-6 grand spare just with that summers income. The thing though is i'm wondering if i should go the slow and frugal route and sue it as a down payment for a Nissan versa or put that money into parts to mod my Alero. And i have so many ideas . But I know i wont make it in time for this contest, my plan is to simply start a project using what i learn from here, keep people informed about it, and inform people of things i might be able to bring to the table. And, ultimately, see what kind of results i can pull off But either way, keep debating and giving me new ideas and info :P

08-12-2008, 09:05 AM	#475
bszopi User account under probation AKA: Brad Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Rogers, AR Age: 46 Posts: 1,391 Vehicle: 1989 Ford Mustang	Well, at least I was still talking a GM engine...

08-25-2008, 12:37 AM	#480
Shock24Z GAGT - Member AKA: Andy Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Lincoln, NE Age: 32 Posts: 371 Vehicle: 98 Grand Prix GTP	Quick update on sk8rs build... holset=on. Spool is noticably slower, but we haven't really looked at the exact rpm from a stop at which it hits full boost. Not a big concern at the moment... Only did a few short first stage shakedown runs... probably quite a few more to come before a serious pull. Some wastegating issues put the boost around 11psi...MAF values show about 32-33lb/min for the few cells peak boost was touched. The 36lb'ers were near maxing out. KR was between 0 and .4 This data isn't very conclusive by any means but the numbers look good for some power to be made. If nothing else he can take the claim of having the first and only holset on a grand am. No?