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Old 12-08-2009, 09:47 PM   #1
O1GAGT
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8+ degrees of KR on stock engines

I am still trying to figure out why on several stock 3.4L grand am's, when I am at WOT the KR increases with speed, however if I let up slightly and then get back on it (Like a quick jab on the pedal) the KR drops off almost instantly. Typically I see KR climb the quickest from around 2,800 - 4,000 RPM.

One of the more experienced tuners on the DHP and HPT boards has also noticed the 8+ degrees of KR on grand am, however as of yet nothing has eliminated my problem. I have done MAF Tunes, VE Tunes, reduced spark, ect. and still get 5-6 degrees of KR.

Since Tiny Tuner was released, I now have a few more tables to access, so I am going to play with the following tables to see what happens, weather permitting.

PE:

PE Delay VS TPS (There is a huge difference between the 99 and 01 file)
PE Mode Delay RPM (The 01 file is set at 3455.859 RPM where my engine seems to get most of its KR)
PE RPM VS Time

MAF:
Speed Density Maf Compensation vs Baro

AE:
AE Modifier VS Baro
AE MPH Modifier

If anyone has played with these tables let me know. I am especially interested in the effects of the PE Mode Delay RPM.

Blemke on the DHP boards mentioned back in June that "This KR happens before/after PE Enable for me. So PE RPM vs Time is not going to help, unless PE Enable is lowered by quite a bit (I think I was down that road a couple years ago when playing with the Grand Am for a bit).. Well, maybe end of the weekend again or Monday.. But I wont/dont set my hope high for this car any more.."

If I am thinking correctly if the PE Mode Delay RPM was lowered to around 2200 RPM it would thus be lowering the PE Enable, which may help with this problem.

Damn this snow and crappy weather!
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Old 12-11-2009, 08:28 PM   #2
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Exactly how "stock" are those cars? No mods at all?
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Old 12-11-2009, 09:03 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AleroB888 View Post
Exactly how "stock" are those cars? No mods at all?
I have seen 8-10* of KR on cars that are 100% stock.
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Old 12-11-2009, 09:09 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O1GAGT View Post
I have seen 8-10* of KR on cars that are 100% stock.
And you have also seen some with very little or close to no KR ?
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Old 12-15-2009, 08:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AleroB888 View Post
And you have also seen some with very little or close to no KR ?
All the stock cars that I have scanned (4 different cars) all had 6+ degrees of KR.

I did change a few tables and the car feels a little better, but I haven't had a chance to do a scan since I had trouble scanning with the DHP software. I need to get the UVscanning software as it is more stable.
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Old 03-31-2012, 12:18 AM   #6
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I know this is a very old thread, but with the tuning world opening up once more, I can add this tiny tidbit of knowledge.

Search Burst Knock. The most pointless and annoying thing that you cant see with HTP....but its there! There is a way to eliminate it though.....
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Old 03-31-2012, 07:20 AM   #7
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AaronGTR has made plenty of valid pointsAaronGTR has made plenty of valid points
I noticed this same problem with my car with the SC, and could never figure out what caused it. If I made a sudden throttle change from cruising to PE mode in boost I'd get KR, then if I backed off the throttle a bit and got back on it, the KR would disappear.
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Old 03-31-2012, 10:25 AM   #8
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So have you gotten your motor fixed Aaron ?
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Old 03-31-2012, 04:54 PM   #9
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AaronGTR has made plenty of valid pointsAaronGTR has made plenty of valid points
Not yet. In process.... I've been meaning to provide an update in my thread in personal vehicle news, but I've been busy. Girlfriend is here right now on spring break from college. More important things on my mind than forum posting.
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Old 03-31-2012, 06:22 PM   #10
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Hopefully soon we will have better support....I may know some things...
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Old 03-31-2012, 07:04 PM   #11
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Support for DHP units?
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Old 03-31-2012, 07:10 PM   #12
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DHP? No. Sorry. More tunability than DHP and a better format.
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Old 03-31-2012, 07:44 PM   #13
O1GAGT
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Before I sold my car, I was able to get the KR down quite a bit but it was never completely gone. I still have my 00 gagt that I need to get back together.

I wish there was an easy way to convert files from .hpt to .bin as tiny tuner opens up a lot more than .hpt will. It seems HPT only wants to work on the V-8 LS based stuff.... would be nice to be able to use a LS based PCM to run a V6.
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Old 03-31-2012, 11:04 PM   #14
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I'm not sure of the differences in years for this but it might be a thing.

The KR dwell and multiplier might play a role in this. The multiplier might of been turned up a bit and it might explain why you got so much KR instantly.

I don't remember if it is called the multiplier, but you get my drift.
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Old 03-31-2012, 11:19 PM   #15
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^ no. Sorry. You are prob talking about knock attack, but still not there. It ONLY comes on when you reach a certain threshold of delta airflow change.
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