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Old 02-21-2010, 08:12 PM   #1
stillriza
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Question Metal to metal scraping at random cold starts - possibley Oil related?

As of late I have noticed a scraping sound coming from the engine at start up, wanted to know what could be causing this. Basically, here is the info.

*It sounds like, for a better lack of words, pulling a sword out of a holster. It's like picking up 2 pieces of metal and scraping them against each other.
*It only last for a second and only as soon as I start the car. It only happens on cold starts and randomly…not at every start..The longer the car has been sitting, the greater the chance of this happening. Which leads me to believe to may have something to do with the oil used?? Searching the forum only gives me links to piston slap. It's def. not the chatter of piston slap.

As for the car… it's been maintained very well & idles fine. All maintenance up to this point has been done regularly and aside from upgrades…this is the very first problem I've ever had with the GA and I am now at 160 XXX KM. It isn't even really a problem…more of an annoyance but I would like it remedied before it turns into one.

Oil is changed at usually around 5000-6000km. The car is strictly highway driven …approx 115 KM return trip every other day or 2 days. At this point, it only needs a tune up (plugs/wires) but I am not sure if this has anything to do with it. I use the regular Delco filters and Castrol GTX 10w30. No sludge buildup last I checked and the engine, aside from that noise, is healthy and the power is still there.

I read that switching to synthetic 5w40 is best for cold start protection in the winter but not sure if this is a solution in my case or if this oil is even really the best route. That's why I need opinions. For all I know, they oil may not even help. Any ideas? I need some pointers on where to look from here. Time to switch to high mileage? Synthetic maybe?
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Old 02-22-2010, 10:04 PM   #2
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anyone? google isn't much of a help.
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Old 02-22-2010, 10:46 PM   #3
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Its really hard to say. A metal scraping sound probably isn't from piston movement as it's too fast for a noise like that. Is it possible its the ring gear on the starter sticking a little?
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Old 02-22-2010, 11:58 PM   #4
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ive had a similar noise, but it will randomly do it at idle when its cold as well, but i know its my idler pulley.
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:40 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lone_wolf025 View Post
Its really hard to say. A metal scraping sound probably isn't from piston movement as it's too fast for a noise like that. Is it possible its the ring gear on the starter sticking a little?
Wolf, would you know how I could check this out to verify?

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ive had a similar noise, but it will randomly do it at idle when its cold as well, but i know its my idler pulley.
wierd & random..but mine is only on startup....never when idling.
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Old 02-23-2010, 12:51 AM   #6
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Old 02-24-2010, 01:22 PM   #7
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hope you don't mean accessory belt? i dont see how that would cause the symptoms above..

are you refering to something else?
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Old 02-24-2010, 05:44 PM   #8
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My starter makes a noise on cold startups that you described. It is the EXACT same circumstances you described. I bet that is what it is because mine does the same thing. Next time you start this keep this in mind.
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Old 02-25-2010, 08:57 AM   #9
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Mine just did it again this morning. Does it sound like a loud, violent, metalic "hiss"?
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Old 02-25-2010, 10:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laser57 View Post
Mine just did it again this morning. Does it sound like a loud, violent, metalic "hiss"?
not really a hiss.. its exactly like scraping metal against metal. i was wondering if it was maybe the oil was ****ty quality or if i switching to high mileage oil/syn would solve this.

i will have to wait till nxt oil change to give it a try.
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Old 02-26-2010, 02:51 PM   #11
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I don't think it would be anything to do with the oil. If it was bad enough to cause metal to metal noises it would do it all the time. From what you say I am gonna bet 95% it is your starter. Next time it is really cold and I got time I will try get a recording of mine doing it to compare yours to. Everything you described describes the starter.
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Old 02-26-2010, 02:54 PM   #12
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And if your car has high milage don't switch to synthetic. It will sometimes eat all the seals out of it. I switched mine at 50,000 miles to NAPA synthetic which says it is compatible with all conventional oils, but if you have a lot of miles on the car I wouldn't take the chance, just in case.
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Old 02-26-2010, 03:07 PM   #13
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...and the more I read your origional post, it describes what my car does PERFECTLY. It doesn't do it when the motor is warm, when there is low humidity, or durring summer. It acts up almost reguraly when it is really cold, high humidity or raining, the first time the car is started or when you start it and drive it for two minnutes and when you restart it, it will do it again (this last one rarely happens unless it is really cold outside). when it is above freezing it will still do it but it will be random. I bet it is the cellinoid sticking, I know that it what it is on mine. I am waiting for the weather to get better to take the starter off mine and tear it all apart and clean it. The noise is the cellinoid sticking and when the car is running the starter gear does not retract fast enough (due to it sticking) and the motor will turn it way faster then what it does on its own. The noise is the starter motor turning at such a high RPM.
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Old 02-26-2010, 04:27 PM   #14
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Does it do right after you let the go when the engine fire's? If so then it is your bendix spring hanging up. Replace the starter, that solved my problem.
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