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Old 03-25-2010, 05:05 PM   #1
Mac0083
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pictures of my problem

Had the car since it was 2 yrs old. Been leaking anti-freeze for a long time... After having it for a year, I realized anti-freeze was getting into the oil. Dealership fixed it under warranty, saying they replaced the lifters, does that make sense? But it fixed that problem. Now I have a new problem...

It leaks from a gasket, dripping down onto the tranny.
What gasket is this? The lower intake manifold?

Here is the anti-freeze sitting on the tranny
100_1068.jpg

Here are 2 pics of the gasket
100_1069.jpg
100_1072.jpg

Won't be much longer till I change the oil, then I'll know if it's getting into there. But from the dipstick, and peeking into the fill cap, it don't look milky.

I sure appreciate your help
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Old 03-25-2010, 05:27 PM   #2
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yeah its the lower intake manifold gasket. or LIM.
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Old 03-25-2010, 05:51 PM   #3
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How recently was this job done?

Are you having to add coolant?
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Old 03-25-2010, 05:57 PM   #4
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when i add coolant up to the "fill" line, it's gone back down again in just a few days. then there's fresh dex-cool on the tranny. but the coolant level only goes down so far, then stays the same.

that job on the lifters was a loong time ago... 7-8 yrs?
this current leak is probably 2 yrs old, but seems more noticeable lately. maybe i just pay more attention to it.
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Old 03-25-2010, 06:18 PM   #5
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what the hell did changing the lifters have to do with anything??

looks totally like a LIM though, sounds like a headgasket possibly. does it ever overheat or anything?
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Old 03-25-2010, 08:22 PM   #6
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LIM.......like everyone else says.
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Old 03-25-2010, 08:25 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac0083 View Post
when i add coolant up to the "fill" line, it's gone back down again in just a few days. then there's fresh dex-cool on the tranny. but the coolant level only goes down so far, then stays the same.

that job on the lifters was a loong time ago... 7-8 yrs?
this current leak is probably 2 yrs old, but seems more noticeable lately. maybe i just pay more attention to it.
Yep. Sounds like the lower intake gaskets have failed... and have done so spectacularly. I don't see many leaking THAT bad.

If the lifter job was that long ago, the old-style LIM gaskets were used. Time to get the updated parts.

Get that fixed... as soon as you possibly can. I wouldn't even drive it like that bcause you don't know how much coolant is getting in the oil.
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Old 03-25-2010, 09:28 PM   #8
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never a problem overheating. operates around 200 degrees.
the low coolant light doesn't even come on, so it only leaks so much after i fill it, then stops.
yeah, i have no idea what the lifters had to do with it all those years ago...
and i swear, it's been like this for a while, it just looks real bad right now because i filled it up a week ago, lots of fresh coolant on the tranny currently, but i haven't found any in the oil for as long as this has been going on.

well i do have plans to upgrade the upper and lower intakes along with a bigger throttle body and headers. waiting to see what wot-tech does for headers, then was gonna do it all at once.

Last edited by Mac0083; 03-25-2010 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 03-26-2010, 12:17 AM   #9
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LIM.......like everyone else says.
2x Our 97 3100 did that for 2+ years before a little started to get into the oil. Knock on wood. In the summer it would go thru a gallon of dexcool about every month.
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Old 03-26-2010, 12:46 AM   #10
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It's a common problem on the grand am... every single member her had to replaced the LIM head gasteket one time or another. If you have some mechanical skills with the haynes manual you'll be able to do the job your self and same some money.
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Old 03-26-2010, 04:22 AM   #11
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.... If you have some mechanical skills with the haynes manual you'll be able to do the job your self and same some money.
I appreciate your vote of confidence, but it took me an hour to take out four screws holding the spark plug distributors bracket...
Another example of my prowess, when i did the CAI, i broke several vacuum lines...
And i am mechanically inclined, i can do anything on the outside world, but when i look under the hood, i know i'm F***ed
I love working on cars, but everything on my GA is so old and brittle...
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Old 03-26-2010, 05:14 AM   #12
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I would stop driving it now. If you havent ever done the bleed procedure after the coolant drops in the tank you probably have an air bubble trapped in the cooling system. The coolant lines must be bled any time the level in the tank drops below empty. If its ever done this in the past and you just topped it off its not going to do diddly unless its bled at the tall (3") black post near the left side of the engine by the belt system. There is a little screw on that tower made of brass that needs to be loosened while the engine is up to temp and running. When no more air flows and its a steady stream of coolant (without letting the level in the tank get low) it can be tightened and the reservoir refilled to the full line. I think this is the least of your worries though. See below:

Even so, a leak you are describing is not to be put off as every time you run it you run the risk of destroying the bearings in the lower end due to the fact that coolant mixed with oil is a VERY poor lubricant. Park the car or push it where you intend to do the work (if you feel inclined) or have it towed to a mechanic for repairs. Make sure you (or the mechanic) uses the new Felpro gasket set.
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Old 03-26-2010, 02:48 PM   #13
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is this the haynes manual that you're talking about?
http://www.haynes.com/products/productID/183
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:01 PM   #14
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Old 03-26-2010, 04:00 PM   #15
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does it cover the intake manifold procedure in good detail?
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Old 03-27-2010, 07:06 AM   #16
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Well, none of the manuals out there cover it in as good a detail as the factory manual, and none of them use the correct torque specs and procedure. That was release by GM in a TSB when the new style gaskets were released. You be best off getting a set of the new fel-pro gaskets and using the new torque specs. A lot of people attempt this themselves, but many screw it up and end up with leaks again later. I've never had a leak on my car though. If you follow the procedure carefully it should be fine. There is a decent "how-to" on here that you can use too. Or if you have trouble with it, don't have the tools, or whatever... let me know. We could do it at my place for a couple bucks.
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Old 03-28-2010, 03:14 AM   #17
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yep, it's a rite of passage. welcome!
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Old 03-28-2010, 06:16 PM   #18
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gonna replace the stock LIM and UIM when i do this job. i have a '99 with a restrictive crease in the UIM, so i'll get a 2000+ ported/polished from WOT tech. but the "EGR?" mount is differnt. only the '99 has it horizontal.

what is this tube on the bottom? it doesn't look flexible, so how do i reconnect it to the newer vertical mounted EGR?
100_1080.jpg
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Old 03-28-2010, 09:00 PM   #19
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It should be flexible. That is the EGR feed tube that pulls exhaust gas from the manifold. The 99 tube has a different flange on it from the '00+ so you will need the EGR valve, tube, and the gasket for both sides. Might be able to pull some of those off a junk yard car, or you can get any of them from gmpartsdirect.com or rockauto.com, look under emissions. Funny thing is, the '99 tube is about $27 but the '00+ is like $56 or more. As much or more than the valve itself depending on what brand you get.
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Old 03-29-2010, 12:20 AM   #20
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