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Old 04-04-2012, 09:21 PM   #181
AaronGTR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AleroB888 View Post
I hope someone finally does perfect the alc injection for use on our setups. Looks like more of you are going to try it in the near future, and hopefully great things will happen

Back in the day when Schweppe used it on his SC setup it was quite effective (his UIM had water condensation on it at the end of his runs ), but it was still a more primitive setup back then. The new units have electronic controllers, can be activate MAP or TPS dependent, and progressive spray increase as well. They are pretty advanced now, and can be installed with safety features such as low flow or reservoir alarms and even boost/timing cuts if the system fails.
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Old 04-04-2012, 11:18 PM   #182
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I have never messed with an injectiom system..seen plenty around...seems like a pretty simple system..i know you would want 100% reliability for a dd...how much does a good system run? Pretty simple and logical next step. I never mentioned 3.5 heads because it would be a waste of money...on your car it would too much money and trouble to lower your cr way too much in my opinion. I dont know how much chamber work your heads have.
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Old 04-05-2012, 04:44 PM   #183
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My heads don't have any chamber work done on them. Just ported intake/exhaust ports, a valve job, and 3500 valves. Plus LS6 springs, LS1 seats, and comp titanium retainers. They were originally bought from RSM racing way back in the day, before anyone else offered ported heads for these cars. I wasn't happy with their porting work and cleaned them up a little myself, but RSM didn't offer any combustion chamber modification and I wouldn't attempt it myself.

For injection systems on this car, there are several options available from companies such as snow performance, AEM, and devils own, starting around $360 for a "decent" adjustable system. Personally I am looking at getting this one from snow performance. http://www.snowperformance.net/stage...st-cooler.html Specifically made to work with the output of a GM maf and is supposed to be easier to adjust the injection rate with a roots blower versus using the MAP activated system.



edit: forgot to add, last time the heads where worked on the shop also milled them a tiny bit to ensure they were flat, because I had a sealing issue with a set of MLS gaskets.
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Last edited by AaronGTR; 04-06-2012 at 06:27 PM.
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Old 04-05-2012, 07:31 PM   #184
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I have never looked at these chambers with a critical eye before now...i have never had the desire to force induction on my car. My first comment when someone tells me they wanna go that route is first buy a trailer to move it with first.... Not that a dd boosted car can be built..it just will take a lot of work to make it reliable as a dd.
The chambers on these heads are designed for a fast burn (low octane) under lower cylinder pressure. Think of a hemispherical chamber as close to ideal for high pressures..and then look at yours. The edge of the chamber extends well into the bore...these edges become much hotter than the rest of the chamber and will contribute to detonation. A .010 to .015 chamfer on these edges would help knock down the temps..esp if could be done in 3 angles. The chambers could use a good smoothing in general and that boss at the plug could be blended in better. Just my .02
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Old 04-19-2012, 08:31 PM   #185
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Going to pick up the engine from the shop tomorrow afternoon. I'll start putting it in tomorrow. Have to work some Saturday morning, so I probably won't get it finished until Sunday some time. Then I'll get to fire it up and see how a fully balanced NA engine responds. Of course, it would probably be better if it didn't have the stock cam in it, and if it had a slightly better set of heads.

Still, I think it should run pretty well. Basically a brand new engine, fully balanced rotating assembly, over bored 1mm with basically brand new pistons and rings, slightly higher compression, and some decent heads. Not to mention all the intake and exhaust mods. Heck, I might even throw it on the dyno after it's broken in... if I think it's safe! But basically I'm going to be babying this thing for a while, and saving money for an alky/water injection system before I put the blower back on.
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Old 04-20-2012, 10:45 AM   #186
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Old 04-20-2012, 07:29 PM   #187
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Get to work! Wanna see this thing back on the road even if it is N/A
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Old 04-20-2012, 08:35 PM   #188
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Glad to see this beast alive again.
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Old 04-20-2012, 09:38 PM   #189
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Baaaaaah!!! Ok so things didn't work out quite as planned.

Went to pick up the engine today and it was ready. Was checking out the bill and didn't see the charge for the engine balance. The guy tells me his machinist told him they had to have the pistons and rods separated in order to do that, and with the press fit wrist pins in our pistons, they normally crack the piston when taking them out. I do remember seeing some of my old stock pistons that got replaced where cracked all along the pin boss when I got them back. It sucks that they can press the pins in... but can't press them out without damaging them.

So I don't get balanced internals. That really sucks, but I certainly didn't want to have to buy new pistons again since they only have 2400 miles on them and are basically brand new. And it wasn't in my budget. I kinda wish the guy had called me and let me know though, instead of just leaving it for a surprise. I would say oh well maybe next time... but I don't know if there's going to be a next time. I'm seriously tired of spending money on this engine and don't know if I'll ever have the time/patience/money/desire to have this thing rebuilt again.

I know I could build the internals stronger and I could get more HP out of this engine... but I just don't see the point with a FWD automatic. The amount it would cost me to get forged pistons, new cam, etc and rebuild it, then possibly another trans swap and/or manual swap, and not even knowing how durable it would be or how well it would work... well, that money would go a long way towards getting me something RWD with a V8 and a manual already in it. If I can get this engine running well, and maybe put an alky kit on it and make the SC work without blowing it up again, I'm calling it done.
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Old 04-20-2012, 11:02 PM   #190
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I understand your frustration....and feel the same, although I love this car too much to let it go. I would say that I have no plans as of now to take it any step further til i feel it's reliable enough for a DD.
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Old 05-16-2012, 12:00 PM   #191
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Hey Aaron,
How r u making out with the car?
I just read this hole thread today 5/16/12 I can see I miss allot since over the years.
I might be able to help you
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Old 05-16-2012, 05:38 PM   #192
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Hey, how have you been?


Yeah, the last two years have been quite eventful. Last March I made 320whp on the dyno then went to the track and ran a 13.7 at 103 with mad wheel spin and terrible shifts. Blew both head gaskets in the second run. I later found out my shift points were set wrong and my engine was bouncing off the rev limiter until the cars momentum carried it to the required speed to shift at. Didn't get enough runs in to figure out what was going on. Rest of the engine problems are detailed in the tread, and yeah... it's a long read!

Did the first rebuild and something killed the bearings after 2400 miles. Detonation I think, but not sure. Only about 200 miles on the second rebuild, but running good so far. I'm going to try and get a few thousand miles on it in NA form first to make sure everything is good.... save up some money for a water/meth injection kit... then put the blower back on. I want to work on the tuning too before that. I'm not sure my changes to the ignition timing where actually doing anything, so I need to see if I can make that work or not.


Oops: just saw that most of the original engine problems aren't in this thread. Well, it's a lot of reading... but if you're bored. :P

This thread starts the drama. hehe
head gaskets: round two

This is where the carnage begins. Starts on page 3.
head gaskets: round two
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13.788 @ 103.73 mph (3/2011) 320 whp and 300 ft/lbs torque. (3/2011)
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Last edited by AaronGTR; 05-16-2012 at 05:51 PM.
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Old 05-17-2012, 02:12 AM   #193
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I have been good and bad but you know me I'm always smiling and life goes on !

My cars bottom end is unchanged since 1999, added all the crap to it in 2002 and never looked back. I have found in most everything I tinker with either to use the stock bottom end or go with a crate motor. Most machine shops are not any cheaper and the qualitity of craftsman ship has gone downhill. I'm sure our stock bottom ends can handle 300-400hp all day as long as the engine doesn't run hot and it has no detonation.
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Old 05-17-2012, 02:24 AM   #194
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As for your rebuild.....

Always use new bolts, unless u have a gauge to measure if the stretched or not it's a risk most engine builders don't take. That might have been your a akilleys heel my friend. I a have blown up many a motor. I have messed with changing torque specs on cranks and rods tring to get a 10,000 rpm small block.....and BANG....

Back to basics Aaron, you know once we stick our bolt in a hole it's stretched😜either need a new bolt or a new hole😝
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Old 05-17-2012, 04:37 PM   #195
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Yeah, I think someone else mentioned that too... that they thought I should have replaced the rod bolts. But I had never heard of that before, and I was following the factory manual. It specifically tells you to replace the heads bolts when changing heads. It doesn't say anything about replacing the rod bolts, so I re-used them and torqued to spec. I don't have a stretch gauge, and they aren't cheap, so I wasn't going to buy one when I only planned on using it once. Oh well.... this was my first time building a rotating assembly, so it was a learning experience. I still don't know exactly why the bearings failed, but I learned a few things in the process.


Oh and btw, the machine shop I used has the best reputation in the area, and they definitely aren't cheap, so I don't think it was any problems with their workmanship. They are very professional, and everything they did looked top notch. Really, the only complaint I could have about them is I wished they had communicated with me more. IE, I asked them what I wanted done, and when some problems arose that they couldn't do something, they did something else without calling me first. But they knew what they were doing and the quality of their work was great.
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13.788 @ 103.73 mph (3/2011) 320 whp and 300 ft/lbs torque. (3/2011)
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Last edited by AaronGTR; 05-17-2012 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 05-17-2012, 05:14 PM   #196
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I wouldnt be that worried about not getting the bottom end balance checked. The first reason is this is not goin to be a high rpm engine. Second is it is a 60 engine, not a 90 or opposing (boxer) engine that demand a more balanced assmbly. Third is these are fairly modern engines and tolerences are whole lot closer than they used to be back in the day. I guess you want the peice of mind, but i honestly think there should be no balance issues
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:11 PM   #197
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I wouldnt be that worried about not getting the bottom end balance checked. The first reason is this is not goin to be a high rpm engine. Second is it is a 60 engine, not a 90 or opposing (boxer) engine that demand a more balanced assmbly. Third is these are fairly modern engines and tolerences are whole lot closer than they used to be back in the day. I guess you want the peice of mind, but i honestly think there should be no balance issues


Yea
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:14 PM   #198
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well, it doesn't really matter if it's a high revving engine or not. If it was fully balanced I could rev it higher. The biggest reason I wanted it was for the smoothness and the extra torque though. They said they've balanced engines and seen as much as 20% torque increase. Granted mine is a newer engine with tighter tolerances so it probably wouldn't be that much, but they told me if it was balanced I could rev it to 7k rpm and it would pick up some HP and torque without any loss of reliability.

I just wanted to do it since I had the money and had the engine apart again. They did weigh each piston and rod together and said they were within a gram of each other, so that's not bad. When they do a full balance though there's more to it that just making the weight equal. They do something with balancing the rods at the same point from one end to the other and make the pistons equal weight, then they balance the crank on a computerized machine that accounts for the rod/piston weight and what the crank counter weights should be. Sorta like a wheel/tire balancing machine, how they can tell you exactly how much weight to add and where.

I just was interested in getting it done and seeing what the actual results would be, but like I said they couldn't take the pistons off without damaging them, so it couldn't be done. I wasn't going to buy new pistons after 2400 miles.
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Old 09-15-2013, 12:56 PM   #199
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Hey Aaron,

So did you ever get the leak from the end of the SC drive shaft taken care of?
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Old 09-28-2013, 11:44 AM   #200
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Nope. Rebuilt twice and two new shaft seals later, it's still leaking oil. Have no idea why. The oil I'm using now is thinner than the standard SC oil (for less drag/more HP) and I don't know if that has anything to do with it leaking past the lip seal, but this thing has leaked from there since the day I bought the kit even with the original oil. So I don't know if it's just a problem with the design of the Magnuson drive extension or what. I don't think the other style factory type nose drives on the eaton blowers the GTP's used ever leaked that much, and they use the same type of seals and bearings, so I don't know what the issue is.
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