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Old 07-27-2011, 02:37 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by MAC the KNIFE View Post
draft tube
Care to elaborate? No idea what that is. I was thinking of maybe an air-oil/water separator for an air compressor or something like that.
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Old 07-27-2011, 02:50 PM   #42
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umm... in the good 'ol days, way before PCV systems, they just had a tube going to the crankcase opened directly to the atmosphere. the bottom of the tube would reach to the bottom of the car and be shaped a certain way to cause a slight draft, causing negative pressure to help pull fumes out of the crankcase as the car rolled along.


not too long ago, you actually posted a youtube vid describing how PCV systems work. the beginning showed what they used before PCV systems (draft tubes) and how those work too. i'm not sayin' it's legal to do that today, but hey, FL doesn't inspect cars for emissions anymore, so it's an option. but of course, you'll probably go for something that kick's ass like an air-oil/water separator or something
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:14 PM   #43
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Wow Aaron...your rotors are filthy compared to what mine looked like when I took mine apart back in Feb 2008.
Here's a pic of mine:


Here's some more pics of what everything else looked like if your interested: http://rides.webshots.com/album/562559108pboNgx
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Old 07-27-2011, 04:44 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAC the KNIFE View Post
umm... in the good 'ol days, way before PCV systems, they just had a tube going to the crankcase opened directly to the atmosphere. the bottom of the tube would reach to the bottom of the car and be shaped a certain way to cause a slight draft, causing negative pressure to help pull fumes out of the crankcase as the car rolled along.


not too long ago, you actually posted a youtube vid describing how PCV systems work. the beginning showed what they used before PCV systems (draft tubes) and how those work too. i'm not sayin' it's legal to do that today, but hey, FL doesn't inspect cars for emissions anymore, so it's an option. but of course, you'll probably go for something that kick's ass like an air-oil/water separator or something
You'll still see a lot of medium- and heavy-duty diesel engines in service equipped with road draft tubes. Venting the crankcase to atmosphere on a boosted engine, however, causes the loss of enough oil to give them another name: the 'slobber tube.'
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Old 07-27-2011, 10:17 PM   #45
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Yeah, mine seems to pull a lot of oil through it, which is probably why the inside of the blower is so dirty. I noticed oil in the UIM last week when I took the blower off and wiped it out. When I took the blower off again last weekend there was already oil in the neck again. I don't think I'd want to just vent it or put a breather on it because it would probably make a mess of my engine bay. Don't want it going through the blower anymore either though. I'll have to figure something out.

I'm just really bummed that putting that K&N breather filter inside the catch can isn't blocking the oil and knocking it out of suspension in the air. What's the point of a catch can that doesn't catch oil?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MAC the KNIFE View Post
umm... in the good 'ol days, way before PCV systems, they just had a tube going to the crankcase opened directly to the atmosphere. the bottom of the tube would reach to the bottom of the car and be shaped a certain way to cause a slight draft, causing negative pressure to help pull fumes out of the crankcase as the car rolled along.


not too long ago, you actually posted a youtube vid describing how PCV systems work. the beginning showed what they used before PCV systems (draft tubes) and how those work too. i'm not sayin' it's legal to do that today, but hey, FL doesn't inspect cars for emissions anymore, so it's an option. but of course, you'll probably go for something that kick's ass like an air-oil/water separator or something
yeah, I forgot that part of the video. Guess I should watch it again. Might give me some ideas.
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Last edited by AaronGTR; 07-27-2011 at 10:21 PM.
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Old 07-27-2011, 11:25 PM   #46
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Yeah, mine seems to pull a lot of oil through it, which is probably why the inside of the blower is so dirty. I noticed oil in the UIM last week when I took the blower off and wiped it out. When I took the blower off again last weekend there was already oil in the neck again. I don't think I'd want to just vent it or put a breather on it because it would probably make a mess of my engine bay. Don't want it going through the blower anymore either though. I'll have to figure something out.

I'm just really bummed that putting that K&N breather filter inside the catch can isn't blocking the oil and knocking it out of suspension in the air. What's the point of a catch can that doesn't catch oil?..................
The latest thing I tried was putting a fuel filter in the PCV line back to the blower. And it still got oily, but possibly cleaner, vapors to the upper intake. Now, it's more of a PITA for me, because it goes through the intercooler too, and that has to be cleaned. I'm hoping there is some kind of "top-lube" benefit from all this ::
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Old 07-28-2011, 07:05 AM   #47
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i used a vw diesel filter. it catches the majority if not all the oil. and there is a drain valve at the bottom.. (win)
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Old 07-28-2011, 07:54 AM   #48
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i used a vw diesel filter. it catches the majority if not all the oil. and there is a drain valve at the bottom.. (win)
At one point I had it run thru a transmission cooler between the headlights. Condensed and cooled the vapors pretty well, but messy to clean
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Old 07-28-2011, 09:37 PM   #49
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The latest thing I tried was putting a fuel filter in the PCV line back to the blower. And it still got oily, but possibly cleaner, vapors to the upper intake. Now, it's more of a PITA for me, because it goes through the intercooler too, and that has to be cleaned. I'm hoping there is some kind of "top-lube" benefit from all this ::
Extra lubrication for better airflow!
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Old 07-29-2011, 04:08 PM   #50
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Finished the porting last night and got the SC put back together. Boxed it up and got it ready to ship today. Probably send it out in the morning. Here's a few pics of the porting. I didn't go nearly as big with it as the stiegemeier's profile. I didn't want to over do it or get too close to the surfaces of the rotor bores and possibly screw something up and/or junk the case. Basically I cleaned up some casting flaws in the bypass outlet, did a very minor enlargement and smoothing of the outlet (no shape change there), and added some depth to the sides on the inlet.










This is what the inside of the inlet and outlet look like. Definitely need to find a way to keep the PCV cleaner.



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Old 07-30-2011, 11:28 PM   #51
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Old 08-08-2011, 04:31 PM   #52
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Got my quote from the shop today. $1173 with return shipping. OUCH! That's a bit more than I wanted to shell out. I was originally looking at around $900 based on what they told me over the phone. Apparently the rotors have too much damage for them to fix properly and get back to proper clearance, so they are going to replace them with a new rotor core. They said there was too much scoring on them from crap going through the rotors. Don't know if that's all from the PCV or from when the head gaskets blew and coolant and other crap got sucked through the system. I've never run it without a filter and the only other stuff that I can think of that might have gone through them is wear metal from the rotors themselves touching the casing. They are also going to have to do some work on the rotor bores before coating to fill in some of the scoring. Those two things is where the extra cost comes in.

So at this point I don't really know what caused it, but hopefully they can fix things so the rotors don't touch the case again. For now I modified my oil catch can again with a proper design that should work... because it wasn't catching much... and I'm thinking of buying another better designed (read: more expensive) catch can and running dual cans on the system to try and catch as much oil as possible. I'm also thinking of a way I could run the PCV to the manifold after the SC and bypass the blower all together, but it would take some more modding and have some trade offs.
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Old 08-08-2011, 05:34 PM   #53
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when the HG blew, how would stuff get to the blower anyways? through the PCV plumbing?

when the blower is back to better tolerances, you might be squeezing a bit more pressure out of the same pulley size. that plus the coating's lower temps and some of your porting, it's gonna be the most badass m62 of the 30 kits out there.

be sure to show us this new proper setup for the catch can.
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Old 08-08-2011, 05:45 PM   #54
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Yes, the coolant got pushed up into the valve covers from the lifter galley, and my guess is that the pressure from the compression pushed it from there through both PCV lines. There was coolant in the intake pipe, the throttle body, through the SC, and into the intake manifold.

Gonna put up some pics of the modified catch can a little latter. Maybe do a whole "how-to" on it. Need to upload the pics first.
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Old 08-08-2011, 07:47 PM   #55
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Yes, the coolant got pushed up into the valve covers from the lifter galley, and my guess is that the pressure from the compression pushed it from there through both PCV lines. There was coolant in the intake pipe, the throttle body, through the SC, and into the intake manifold.

Gonna put up some pics of the modified catch can a little latter. Maybe do a whole "how-to" on it. Need to upload the pics first.
just a thought but what about venting to atmosphere after the dual catch cans?
No need to run it back into the motor the cans should catch all the crap and anything else would be safe.
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Old 08-08-2011, 08:57 PM   #56
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just a thought but what about venting to atmosphere after the dual catch cans?
No need to run it back into the motor the cans should catch all the crap and anything else would be safe.

Thought about that already. It's far from ideal.

1) There is no suction at low throttle position (which is 80% of normal driving) to help evacuate the crank case of gases.

2) That suction at low throttle helps seat the rings more firmly at idle so you don't get flutter and burn oil.

3) At WOT when there is pressure in the crank case, it pushes all those gases out the vent. The catch cans will never catch 100% of it, and you get an oily mess all over your engine compartment from the vent.


The best solution I've thought of would be to run the PCV line to the original port on the UIM with a fitting JB welded in there so the boost wouldn't blow it out. Then I'd have to find a 1/2" check valve for that line so when the manifold sees boost it won't pressurize the PCV system and crank case. There would still be some pressure in the case from blow by at WOT though and no where to go. If I put a breather vent on the catch can with a check valve between them (closed going in) that would allow the pressure to bleed off, but the check valve would close at part throttle when the system is under vacuum and stop un-metered air from entering. So it wouldn't be perfect in that it would still vent into the engine bay under boost, but at least during normal driving it would work properly. A lot would depend though on how well the check valves seal and how much pressure they hold. I could see there being possible problems with it down the road of the valves don't work right.

I dunno, maybe I'm over thinking it. I might just need to try it set up like normal with the two catch cans and see how that works first. I just really would like to keep the inside of the SC clean if possible.
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Old 08-08-2011, 09:10 PM   #57
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Thought about that already. It's far from ideal.

1) There is no suction at low throttle position (which is 80% of normal driving) to help evacuate the crank case of gases.

2) That suction at low throttle helps seat the rings more firmly at idle so you don't get flutter and burn oil.

3) At WOT when there is pressure in the crank case, it pushes all those gases out the vent. The catch cans will never catch 100% of it, and you get an oily mess all over your engine compartment from the vent.


The best solution I've thought of would be to run the PCV line to the original port on the UIM with a fitting JB welded in there so the boost wouldn't blow it out. Then I'd have to find a 1/2" check valve for that line so when the manifold sees boost it won't pressurize the PCV system and crank case. There would still be some pressure in the case from blow by at WOT though and no where to go. If I put a breather vent on the catch can with a check valve between them (closed going in) that would allow the pressure to bleed off, but the check valve would close at part throttle when the system is under vacuum and stop un-metered air from entering. So it wouldn't be perfect in that it would still vent into the engine bay under boost, but at least during normal driving it would work properly. A lot would depend though on how well the check valves seal and how much pressure they hold. I could see there being possible problems with it down the road of the valves don't work right.

I dunno, maybe I'm over thinking it. I might just need to try it set up like normal with the two catch cans and see how that works first. I just really would like to keep the inside of the SC clean if possible.
Here is another thought, though I dont think its feasible just throwing it out.

Electric operated vac, tied in to your rpm at certain rpm it starts up and sucks out the pcv system.
What to do with it is still the mystery though, vent it? or find a port that wont see boost?
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Old 08-09-2011, 04:37 AM   #58
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Yeah, I've thought of that before too. Really wouldn't be worth it, and another problem is where to find a vacuum pump that would work. It would also have to vent to atmosphere. The only ports that don't see boost are in front of the SC, so it would still be going through the SC unless it was vented to atmosphere. If that's the case then you could just set it up like normal with no need for a pump. It would just add extra weight, cost, and electrical load to the engine.
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Old 08-09-2011, 04:46 AM   #59
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well if you vent it to a port that doesn't see boost, then the blower gets oily again.

electric vacuum could work better than the check valves, but i'd have the elec exclusively, not mix it with check valves at certain rpm.

what about if you ultimately vent it to atmosphere, but through a tube that runs to the bottom of the engine bay or at least to the back near the firewall. so it doesn't coat the engine bay with oily soot.
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no more Big Gears, buh-bye coilovers... illusions of making this a racecar have passed. 12.78 @112.. not a bad grocery getter
-still LOUD AS FCK though

2006 GTO completely stock. rip at 39k.

99 GAGT 108k miles, Borla cat-back, CAI, 65mm TB, EGR delete, WOT-tech intakes, F-Body Brakes w/ Hawk HPS pads.
Suede headliner, heated seats, jvc HU, infinity speakers+amp+subs, LEDs
-probably less than 1000 miles on it in the last 3 years...
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Old 08-31-2011, 04:08 PM   #60
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Well I got an email back from Embree machine. They are finishing the final assembly of my blower and should be shipping it out on Friday. So it should be here some time next week.

I got the catch can all modded and the UIM modified and got two brass vacuum check valves to use for rerouting the PCV system when the blower gets here. Got a bunch of stuff to do before it gets here though.

This weekend I'll be taking the top end apart again to change both head gaskets and dropping the oil pan to un-shim the pressure relief spring in the oil pump cover that I shimmed when I assembled the engine. Oil pressure gets higher than I'd like it when the oil is cold. I guess I shouldn't have shimmed it, but I never expected it to get that high because the old pump never did, even when it was fairly new. I guess either the Melling puts out more pressure and/or the pressure relief spring in it is stiffer than in the stock pump.
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