Milzy Motorsports Group Buys x 3

[MilzyZ34]

So I realize the idea of launching 3 group buys at the same time has it's flaws, most importantly that some people may be interested in more than one of them, but may be unable to take part in more than one at the same time. Unfortunately, it's just the way everything is falling together, so it's how I have to do it, so I'm sorry about that.

So that being said, I'm going to organize 3 new group buys for MMS products for Grand Ams and similar N-bodies …

1) Performance sway bars
2) Tubular rear cradles
3) MMS headers for 3100/3400/3500 engines

In order to not fill this forum with new threads, I'm going to attempt to handle all three group buys through this one thread, as well as similar threads on other forums.

So this is how these group buys are going to work...
1) I would like people who are definitely in to simply post something definitive like "I'm in", "Ready to buy", "Count me in", etc. Also be sure to point out which group buy you want in on. If you're on the fence, but want considered to be on the list, type "maybe" and we will still contact you to see if you would be interested when things move forward. If you are in, please do what you have to do to get your money set aside for the group buy.
2) Anyone who is in, please send me an e-mail to mikem@milzymotorsports.com, or a PM to me on this forum including your actual name and contact info (atleast phone and e-mail address) so we can streamline the communication process. If you're sending me an e-mail, please put the name of the product and group buy in the subject line.
3) We will then send e-mails with the terms and conditions to each person on this list. Each group buy will have slightly different terms and conditions, so please be sure to read them. The language of these e-mails will be pretty simple. If you agree to the terms, then simply reply back "I agree".
4) We'll have certain thresholds we're looking for to fulfill each of the group buys. Once we have enough people, this is when we will begin collecting money. We'll probably allow for about a week or so of people deciding in or out, and then once we begin collecting money for whatever group buy it is, we'd like that to happen as quickly as possible, preferably we can collect all payments within about a week. To eliminate stragglers holding up the process we're going to put a cut-off of two weeks from when we post about collecting payments, to when we stop collecting payments.
5) The payments for the sway bars and rear cradles will be due in full once we move forward. As for the headers, we're going to add an option to pay over two separate payments. The details of this will be in the terms and conditions. There will be trade-offs for making two payments instead of up front.
6) Once we've collected all the money, we will immediately buy any and all materials necessary to begin production, and once those are here, production will begin. For these reasons, once money is collected, it is not refundable.
7) Estimated lead-times for each group-buy project will be in the terms and conditions for that group buy.
8) We will not charge for shipping costs until the orders are complete and ready to ship. Then we will contact each customer to verify shipping information and collect shipping costs.


I think that about covers it. If you guys think I've missed something, let me know and I can add to these if necessary.


OK, now as far as the parts go...

Sway bars - We're going to sell these for $250 for the front only, or $400 for front and rear. The pair is discounted as an incentive to buy as a pair, not because the rear is that much cheaper. Price includes powdercoating of the sway bar(s) in one of our usual colors. We're looking for atleast 15 front sway bars to get these made. I know it's possible we could sell less rears, so if we sell much less rears, we will probably still make them, but we may make them on a separate batch if not many sell.

Tubular rear cradles - These will be on the group buy for $275 without sway bar provisions, and $350 with sway bar mounts AND Energy Suspension bushings. Price includes powdercoating of the cradle in one of our usual colors. We will need atleast 10 orders to push these forward. We already have one.

Headers - These are the same headers you all know and love, but with one change. They will no longer be 100% hand-made. Hand building every set sounds cool, but it's very tedious, and the extra labor means extra cost. So this group buy will be to transition us to a more production-line kind of process, the backbone of which is 1-piece mandrel bending of as much of the tubing as possible. The only downside to this is it means us having to buy the pre-bent pieces 25 or 30 sets at once. So to make it worthwhile for you guys, we're discounting our $950 headers down to $800 for this group buy, and we'd like to sell 20+ sets of these if possible. I think at minimum we'd need 15. Please note options for headers like downpipes, gaskets, etc will not be discounted as these are already discounted to the cheapest possible prices.

[tw0123]

I have a couple questions about the tubular rear cradle...
1) do you have any pictures of how it'll look?
2) when you mention sway bar provisions, is that just for your sway bars or also either stock or speedbuilt bars?
3) will there be an adjustment point for those of us who have upgraded to the w body tubular rear lateral arms?
This has definitely peaked my interest!!!

[gregraisbeck]

Great questions Tim. I would be down for a cradle as well pending they work with SpeedBuilt Sway bars and W-Body lateral bars.

[MilzyZ34]

Originally Posted by tw0123

I have a couple questions about the tubular rear cradle...
1) do you have any pictures of how it'll look?
2) when you mention sway bar provisions, is that just for your sway bars or also either stock or speedbuilt bars?
3) will there be an adjustment point for those of us who have upgraded to the w body tubular rear lateral arms?
This has definitely peaked my interest!!!

1) I do not have pictures of the N-body version. The only one I ever made is on my race car, which is in storage right now. It will look similar to this one we make for the W-body … http://www.milzymotorsports.com/mms-...body-vehicles/

2) Without the sway bar provisions means you will not be able to bolt up any sway bar - stock or otherwise. With sway bar provisions means it will have the ability to bolt up a stock or aftermarket sway bar, provided that the centerline of the sway bar stays the same (like for any bolt-on sway bar)

3) There is not adjustability on the rear cradle. If you have adjustable lateral arms, that is where your adjustment is. There will be roughly .030" of slop on each mounting hole, so there will be a slight amount of adjustment to align the cradle, but that's it. For those that do not currently have adjustable lateral arms, we do offer some that are a direct-fit for the Grand Am, not adapted from another vehicle. All four arms are adjustable so that you can not only adjust toe, but also rear camber.

Anyone using W-body lateral arms, please make sure we put this into the invoice for your cradle because we'll need to use 14mm bosses for the lateral arm bolts instead of the N-body 12mm ones. Our N-body lateral arms use the stock 12mm bolt size.


I just went out to the shop and rolled under a Grand Am, and there are a few differences between the W-body cradles we currently make, and the N-body ones. One is the fuel fill tube passes between the frame and the cradle, so I'm just going to have to factor this into the design. Another thing I forgot to mention was the e-brake cable. I think I can make a laser-cut, reinforced bracket that will work, but it will be a little extra. For this group buy, I think we can price it at $30 and just see where we end up after that if we need to raise the price later on when it's a finished product on our website and not a pre-order group buy.


So the design will be very similar to the W-body one we sell, and here are the specs for that … The tubing for the main structure of the cradle is 1 3/4" DOM (drawn over mandrel) tubing, aka rollcage tubing. It's 1/8" wall. The main mounting flanges are 1/4" laser-cut mild steel. The sway bar flanges are 1/4", and the sway bar flange gussets are 3/16". The complete bar after powdercoat weighs in at exactly 16lbs on the W-body version. Let me know if you have any more questions about anything.

[tw0123]

Thanks Mike!!! The provision for the 14mm vs 12mm bolt was what i meant about adjustment for the w body lateral bars....

I think the last question would be an estimate at best, but shipping cost to Ontario Canada? I'm already pushing $500cdn given the exchange rate with the e brake cable and sway bar additions.... Plus i have to convince the Mrs

[MilzyZ34]

Originally Posted by tw0123

Thanks Mike!!! The provision for the 14mm vs 12mm bolt was what i meant about adjustment for the w body lateral bars....

I think the last question would be an estimate at best, but shipping cost to Ontario Canada? I'm already pushing $500cdn given the exchange rate with the e brake cable and sway bar additions.... Plus i have to convince the Mrs

One of the reasons we're not doing the shipping until later is we won't have the exact weight and dimensions of the parts until it's done. The last one I shipped for the grand prix I think was 12x12x45 or 48 and around 25lbs with packaging and bolts. I guess you could check ups.com and see what the shipping would be for something like that.


In the states, it would cost about 30-35 or so to ship I would guess, but to Canada, things have a tendency to triple.

[tw0123]

That's what i figured would be somewhere around $100+ duty fees etc.. I talked to the Mrs and got a hard no until i get the car painted first... So unfortunately, unless it takes a year to get 10+ for the rear cradle I'm out :'(

[solutions_auto]

Not totally related, but do you have pictures of your lateral/trailing arm kit? I know you do not on the website.
Also, I may be interested in the rear cradle. It is about time to redo the suspension on the car. You know it has a whopping 44k miles on it. Lol

[young gun]

In for tubular rear cradle. Cash in hand.

[CJaguar265]

already down for the rear cradle

[CJaguar265]

down for sway bar

[gregraisbeck]

I spoke with Mike and I am in for the cradle.

We need to get a list of who is in for what and connect with other forums and FB groups.

[MilzyZ34]

Originally Posted by solutions_auto

Not totally related, but do you have pictures of your lateral/trailing arm kit? I know you do not on the website.
Also, I may be interested in the rear cradle. It is about time to redo the suspension on the car. You know it has a whopping 44k miles on it. Lol

Sure don't. I was going to take some pictures once we make the next batch, and I was considering doing a group-buy on those as well.

[young gun]

Originally Posted by MilzyZ34

Sure don't. I was going to take some pictures once we make the next batch, and I was considering doing a group-buy on those as well.

In on those too, one of the few parts I don't have stock piled away.

[01OhioAlero]

With all this all thats left is some kind of tubular front control arms and these cars could be great at autocross tracks.

[gregraisbeck]

I have aleroboy99's custom control arms on my car. if I knew how to post a picture I would but you can search for his sale thread from many years ago on here or at aleromod.

[MilzyZ34]

OK, so I think we have just about enough people to move forward on the tubular rear cradles. According to my count, I've got 7 people marked as in, and here is the list …

Chris R
Mike C
Greg R
Berry T
Dustin (solutions_auto)
Erik (young gun)
Derik VG

Now I believe I have current contact info for the first two or three, but the last 4 or 5 I still need info, so if your name is on the list, please e-mail me at mikem@milzymotorsports.com

Make the subject the name of the item you're interested in, and group buy.

I need to know full name, e-mail, phone, billing address, shipping address, and vehicle information.

I plan on writing the terms and conditions up next week, and I'll e-mail that to everyone on the list. Once everybody agrees, I'll start taking payments.

We could still use 3 more buyers, so if any of you are still on the fence, now would be a good time to get on board.


As for the other group buys, I'd like to get these moving forward as well, so if anyone is interested in headers or sway bars, please let me know. Also if anyone is interested in another group buy on lateral and trailing arm packages.

[solutions_auto]

Mike- I am actually more interested in the trailing/lateral arm kit.

[young gun]

email sent.

Interested in trailing/lateral arm kit

[MilzyZ34]

Originally Posted by solutions_auto

Mike- I am actually more interested in the trailing/lateral arm kit.

OK, noted, but does that mean you're not interested in being in the rear cradle group buy?

I also still need contact info for Derik if he's still interested.